Merged Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program UFO'S

[skyeagle409]

You know I'm not a pilot. We've had this conversation before. Do try to keep up.

As I've stated, at no time did the radar track the object into the ground. Done deal, you understand. I even tied the numbers to the radar screen occasionally.

Knowing the rest of the story about the radar system would do you some good. Not knowing is what got well-known UFO debunker Tim Printy, in hot water with me. I was the one who educated him about the ability of the C-54 to use the runway at Kirtland AFB, and as a result, he was forced to make a correction on his own website. That was in regard to his claim during our Roswell debate that the C-54 could not use the runway because it was too short and I simply told him he was incorrect and I proved it. Needless to say, we no longer communicate.

 

[skyeagle409]

Though lighthouses rarely fly...

And, the lighthouse wasn't responsible for the guards at the East Gate to head into the forest. They didn't do so the day before December 26, 1980 nor the week before, nor the month before, nor even the years before the event on December 26, 1980, yet the lighthouse was there for years lighting away as it was designed to do. That is a very important clue that the guards at no time misidentified the lighthouse as a UFO because the lighthouse cannot be seen from the East Gate through a thick forest a mile wide and several miles from the gate.

The reason they went into the forest in the first place is because they saw an object descend into the forest and thought that a plane had crashed. There is more to the Rendlesham story as well that I expect to come out into the open.

 

[skyeagle409]

I am sure that you will bring the documents forward if they exist. And yet, all you have brought to light until now is that there were people in the military, particularly in the 40's and 50's, who believed in UFO's and interpreted their evidence to fit a UFO theory. It is always of the type "there was no equipment failure - therefore aliens".

Not in the cases I've mentioned. For an example, in the Belgian UFO incident, multiple and dissimilar ground-based radars confirmed the radar tracking of the same UFO on the radar screens of both F-16's, which the lead pilot confirmed during his video interview. In that case as in others, no equipment failure was responsible and many of those cases are known as 'radar/visual' cases.

But when Matthew Ellard shows that you have in fact faked evidence, you just claim "no", and changes the subject.

He doesn't take the facts as presented, nor does he harbor the knowledge needed to understand what is being presented. Another case in point, he doesn't do his homework, which is why he falsely claimed that Luis Elizondo was not head of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) and that the Navy's videos were faked, among other false claims.

 

[skyeagle409]

So he might exist, but why would that make him a credible witness in regard to UFOs?

First of all, we were assigned to Hill AFB, the depot for the Minuteman missiles. We were not stationed at Malmstrom AFB where the events occurred. I was based with the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing, Phan Rang, Vietnam during the Malmstrom AFB UFO intrusion in 1967 and upon completion of my tour, assigned to the 2952 CLSS, Hill AFB, Utah in 1968 and even then, they were still talking about events at Malmstrom AFB at Hill.

My squadron had a selected team of "Bird Watchers' whose only duty was to monitor and escort Minuteman missiles to and from Hill AFB and their home bases on a special train, and my buddy was one of those. That was their only duty while stationed at Hill and why we called them the 'Bird Watchers.' They didn't have anything else to do until called for another trip.

 

[skyeagle409]

Your lies to date, [II would first ask Jay Utah to moderate the debate and production of evidence as he is a senior, high level missile and rocket engineer and would quickly see through BS.)

Apparently, you are incorrect on all counts.

* Tell us who falsely claimed that Luis Elizondo was not head of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP)[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Aerospace_Threat_Identification_Program

* Tell us who claimed the Navy videos were faked.

Should I go on? Let's do a recap on what you have said"

#121
Matthew Ellard
Master Poster

No. That video is not "courtesy" of the Department of Defence. It is a video supplied by Harold Puthoff who was in the room with Luis Elizondo. Harold Puthoff has already been running his private UFO chasing company Earth Tech International since 1985. Skeptics already know Harold Puthoff as Yuri Geller's promoter.

All that is happening is that the people in the room, none of whom are employed by any government or any defence organisation, are raising money for their new UFO chasing company To the Stars Academy.

https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com/

There is no Dod press release, released video or anything else. Luis Elizondo does not work for the Department of Defense, nor is he their spokesperson. These people are trying to raise money.

But, look what happened here!

The Navy Says Those UFO Videos Are Real

The U.S. Navy has confirmed that three online videos purportedly showing UFOs are genuine.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/18/politics/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-trnd/index.html

 

[skyeagle409]

You claim you served in the 2952nd CLSS, Hill AFB, which repaired F4 Phantoms at this time, which had nothing to do with minuteman missiles.

Not only were we the depot for the Minuteman missiles and the F-4 Phantom, two of which were involved in the 1976 Iranian UFO incident, our squadron also had the "Bird Watcher' team which monitored and escorted Minuteman missiles aboard a special train to and from their home bases and Hill.

And yes, they were still talking about the 1967 UFO events at Malmstrom AFB when I arrived for my new assignment at Hill AFB from Vietnam in 1968.

 

[steenkh]

First of all, we were assigned to Hill AFB, the depot for the Minuteman missiles. We were not stationed at Malmstrom AFB where the events occurred. I was based with the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing, Phan Rang, Vietnam during the Malmstrom AFB UFO intrusion in 1967 and upon completion of my tour, assigned to the 2952 CLSS, Hill AFB, Utah in 1968 and even then, they were still talking about events at Malmstrom AFB at Hill.

My squadron had a selected team of "Bird Watchers' whose only duty was to monitor and escort Minuteman missiles to and from Hill AFB and their home bases on a special train, and my buddy was one of those. That was their only duty while stationed at Hill and why we called them the 'Bird Watchers.' They didn't have anything else to do until called for another trip.

I repeat, what makes him an expert who is able to determine that what he saw was something extra-terrestrial?

 

[skyeagle409]

But when Matthew Ellard shows that you have in fact faked evidence, you just claim "no", and changes the subject.

UFO debunkers do not listen very well and tend to ignore facts and evidence presented to them, which is why I sometimes do what I do.

I had the same trouble with Tim Printy. Tim wrongly claimed the C-54 could not land at Kirtland AFB, and that was in addition to our debate on Roswell. Tim was trying to debunk the testimony of one of the crewmembers of an C-54 in regards to the Roswell incident. I told him he was incorrect and I was correct because the C-54 did in fact, fly out of Kirtland AFB, which effectively shut down Tim and forced him to make a correction on his own website. I was surprised that Tim was not knowledgeable about Kirtland AFB and the history of the C-54 at that base and yet he posted false information on his website and I confronted him on that issue until he made the correction.

I was debating another UFO debunker, 'access-denied,' who then went and brought in Tim into the argument and the rest became history when the smoke cleared.

Tim Printy wrote:

Loading Freight
"Smith may have flown to Kirtland but not in 1947. A C-54 could not land at Kirtland during this time period because the runway was too small!"

Skyeagle409 wrote:

How come Tim Printy never knew that the first atomic bomb, "Fat Man" was flown out of Kirtland AFB to Tinian on what? A C-54! As far as components for "Little Boy" were concerned, three parts were flown out of Kirtland Air Force Base, Albuquerque on three C-54 transport planes, which arrived July 28 at Tinian.

As I said before during the debate, all Tim Printy had to do was to check his history book.

Just goes to show that using Tim Printy as a reference has its risk and no small ones at that!

Lost_Shanman Wrote:

Looks like Skyeagle409 is correct. All Tim Printy had to do was check the history books on this one.

 

[skyeagle409]

I repeat, what makes him an expert who is able to determine that what he saw was something extra-terrestrial?

i think I see the problem here, because I am not making myself clear.

Neither he, nor I, witnessed the UFO events at Malmstrom AFB in 1967. However, talk was still flowing around Hill of the UFO incidents at Malmstrom. I became interested and decided to do my own research, which is one of the reasons why I called Capt. Salas years later.

The UFOs eventually returned to Malmstrom AFB and that is when the Air Force scrambled two F-106 Delta Dart interceptors. I might also add that the UFOs also appeared at other SAC bases and you can review one of those incidents at the following link.


Minot AFB UFO Incident

In the early morning hours of 24 Oct. 1968, United States Air Force (USAF) maintenance and security personnel stationed within the Minuteman, Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) complex surrounding Minot AFB, North Dakota, observed one—and at times—two UFOs. The Minot Base Operations dispatcher initiated radio communications with personnel reporting in the field, Minot, Radar Approach Control (RAPCON), and the crew of a returning B-52H aircraft.

RAPCON alerted the pilots to the location of a UFO, which the B-52 navigator observed on the radarscope maintaining a three-mile distance throughout a standard 180° turnaround. As the B-52 started its descent back to Minot AFB, the UFO appeared to close distance to one mile at a high-rate of speed, pacing the aircraft for nearly 20 miles before disappearing off the radarscope. Both B-52 UHF radios would not transmit during the close radar encounter with the UFO and radarscope film was recorded.

Shortly afterwards, RAPCON provided vectors for the B-52 to overfly a stationary UFO on or near the ground. After turning onto the downwind leg of the traffic pattern, the pilots observed a large, illuminated UFO ahead of the aircraft for several minutes, before turning onto the base leg over the UFO while observing it at close range. After the B-52 landed, both outer and inner-zone intrusions alarms were activated at the remote missile Launch Facility Oscar-7. The duration of reported observations was over three hours.

USAF Strategic Air Command, Offutt AFB, Nebraska, initiated inquiries. In the weeks following, staff at USAF Project Blue Book, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, completed a final case report mandated by Air Force Regulation 80-17.

http://minotb52ufo.com/

 

[skyeagle409]

You claim you served in the 2952nd CLSS, Hill AFB, which repaired F4 Phantoms at this time, which had nothing to do with minuteman missiles.

Captain Salas left the US airforce in 1971.

You telephoned a person off base and told them them minutemen missiles were sabotaged and left a trail so you can be identified?

Apparently, your wires are seriously crossed. I called him years after the incident during the course of my research, not during my assignment at Hill. However, there was still talk going on at Hill about the UFO incidents at Malmstrom AFB while I was stationed there from 1968-71, which is why I eventually decided to do some research.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Prove me wrong on this case.

...


Seconds after Heading Speed Altitude lock-on (degrees) (knots) (feet)

...

09 270 550 7000

10 210 560 9000

11 210 570 10000

12 210 560 11000

...

22.5 300 980 0000 Break lock

Since you have offered us these figures many times as evidence, please explain their seeming inconsistency:

In the 3 second period, from 9 to 11 seconds, the contact climbs 4,000 feet.

During this time, its speed is recorded as being between 550 and 570 knots.

But travelling 4,000 feet in 3 seconds requires an average speed of 790 knots, far in excess of 570, and that's only the vertical component of its velocity.

What do you think we should make of these numbers?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

That was the date of the report, but you missed the rest of the picture, which is:

"Through Andropov's personal interest, in 1978 two committees were established to investigate UFOs, one military and one civilian. Andropov ordered four million Soviet soldiers to file detailed reports of incidents."

Yuri Andropov was director of the KGB in 1978 (civilian intelligence service) and unable to make any order related to the military or GRU ( military intelligence) which was then headed by Pyotr Ivashutin.

Igor Sinitsin, who made this claim in 2003, worked for the Politburo after Andropov became Chairman of the Soviet Union and never worked for the KGB. Igor Sinitsin could not have seen any such order on Andropov's KGB desk as Andropov had already moved from Lubyanka to the Kremlin.

Even funnier there is no such "UFO" committee in the GRU or KGB or sub-directorate to tell any soldier to do anything.

KGB 1st Main Directorate (intelligence abroad);
KGB 2nd Main Directorate (Counterintelligence);
KGB 3rd command (foreign military counterintelligence);
KGB 5th management (struggle against ideological diversion);
KGB 7th Directorate (external supervision and protection of the diplomatic corps);
KGB 8th Main Department (encryption and decryption);
KGB 9th management (protection of party and government leaders);
KGB OTU (operational and technical management);
KGB (Personnel management);
KGB (Investigation Department
KGB 10th department (accounting and archival);
KGB 11th department (coordination of communication with the organs of state security of the socialist countries);
KGB 12th department (listening to telephone conversations and premises);
KGB GUPV (Main Directorate of Border Troops);
KGB Hoz (economic management);
KGB OPS (Government Communications Department);
KGB FPO (financial planning department);

 

[Matthew Ellard]

The Soviet Union has had its share of UFO incidents and they have confirmed that UFOs have interfered with U.S. missiles as well,

You forgot you made up this lie and posted it, haven't you?

How old are you skyeagle409?

71

I left the airforce in 1971.

Fun with mathematics
You were 23 when you left the airforce as a apprentice airframe technician working on F4 Phantoms. Who told you, a 19 to 23 year old, that the Minuteman ICBMs were sabotaged by UFOs, at Hill AFB?

You simply made this entire story up to get attention.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Apparently, your wires are seriously crossed. I called him years after the incident during the course of my research,

So you admit you told a civilian, Robert Salas,, who had also left the airforce, that a "that the minuteman ICBMs, from Hill AFB depot had been sabotaged" although you never worked on ICBMs and were only 23 when you left the airforce and you can't even remember the date the ICBMs were supposedly sabotaged?

Magically, you are the only person who knew that UFOs had done this to the ICBMs you never worked on.

Your lies are now just ridiculous!

 

[Matthew Ellard]

More lies by Skyeagle409

The landing pods were equally spaced and 7 inches in diameter.

and that a determination was made the object weight around 8 tons...

7 inches, equally spaced and radioactive.

Who measured the rabbit holes as being 7 inches in diameter?

Who estimated the rabbit holes were made by 8 ton rabbits?

Who did this thinking the rabbit holes were radioactive?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

KGB chief ordered 4m soldiers to keep watching the skies for UFOs (in 1978)
Nick Paton Walsh in Moscow
Sun 23 Mar 2003 18.42 EST

I have already pointed out that the KGB (civilian intelligence service) did not control the army and that Yuri Andropov, head of the KGB was not at the politburo until 1982. This alone makes Skyeagle's claim nonsense.

But then the penny dropped........

Russia didn't have 4 million soldiers. The Soviet Union had 4 million service men and women in entirety. That means if any order was given I would still be able to view those exact orders in the archives of former soviet Union members Ukraine or Estonia or Latvia or Lithuania, who are now allies of the USA.

Secondly and even funnier, Skyeagle409 doesn't seem to know what a chain of command is and pretends he was in the USA airforce. How many orders did the director of the CIA, Stansfield Turner give skyeagle409? Well none. He would have received his orders from his own commanding officer in the military not the director or the CIA. He didn't know that.

Thirdly, Stavka ( Soviet Union military high command), had numbered orders. Where is the Lithuanian or Ukranian or Estonian or Lithuanian Stavka order for all servicemen to "watch the skies for UFOs"?

Finally, Skyeagle seems totally unaware that the Soviet Union had its own version of NORAD, run by the GRU which was already watching for USA ICBMs.

I now doubt Skyeagle was in the US airforce at all.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

skyeagle409: I notice you have yet to respond to my points about the conclusions of the US Air Force reports you keep mentioning.
You said one was released in 1948, and another in 1952, both confirming that the sightings were of interplanetary craft.
Now, I have quoted the conclusions of Project Blue Book, released in 1948, which said the sightings were, for the most part, readily explicable by more mundane causes, and that only a few cases merited further investigation. Nowhere did it say they had confirmed the extraterretrial origin of these sightings.
I have quoted the USAF report, released in 1952, which says much the same thing.
If your argument is to be believed, the USAF must have released two reports in 1948 with diametrically opposite conclusions, and then did the same thing again in 1952.
This seems rather strange.
Can you please link to and quote the reports you allege give the conclusions you have claimed for them?

 

[Disbelief]

Who measured the rabbit holes as being 7 inches in diameter?

Who estimated the rabbit holes were made by 8 ton rabbits?

Who did this thinking the rabbit holes were radioactive?

And claims of molten metal dripping off, yet nothing was found. Suddenly switched to talking about plaster casts for depressions, which have nothing to do with my question about finding solidified metal.

I'm looking in on this thread when I have an opportunity, and skyeagle is not making a very good case.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

.... he falsely claimed that Luis Elizondo was not head of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP).

Then the Pentagon's press officer, Christopher Sherwood made a clear statement.
"Yes, AATIP existed, and it “did pursue research and investigation into unidentified aerial phenomena,” Pentagon spokesperson Christopher Sherwood told me. However, he added: “Mr. Elizondo had no responsibilities with regard to the AATIP program while he worked in OUSDI [the Office of Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence], up until the time he resigned effective 10/4/2017.”

Why do you lie so much?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Apparently, you are incorrect on all counts.

Nope. Not only have I identified your earlier forgery of evidence, but I now have two more lies to add to your tally concerning Rendlesham.

Here is the current list of your lies concerning Redlesham
1) Someone made casting of the three rabbit holes at the time, (A complete lie)
2) The three rabbit holes were radioactive (A complete lie)
3) No one could see the lighthouse in the forest (A complete lie)
4) The lighthouse was shielded towards the forest ( A lie and a forgery)
5) Radar picked up "bogies" on the night ( A complete lie and a forgery)
6) The MoD hid evidence about the night ( A complete lie)
7) The police didn't identify the rabbit holes and light house on the night to colonel Halt (The police wrote a formal report)
New 8) Someone measure the rabbit holes as 7 inches in diameter (A complete lie)
New 9) Someone estimated an 8 ton UFO made the rabbit holes ( A complete lie)

When I offered you a chance to provide evidence for your lies in a moderated debate you ran away. You did the same in the 9/11 thread when you claimed it was a controlled demolition.