Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[Matthew Best]

It isn't about taking her seriously. It's about not putting her in the spotlight. She is a child. She has no accomplishments. That is no sin, almost no 16 year old in the world does, but you don't put someone like that in the spotlight. It's invariably bad for them. The seriousness of her opinions isn't relevant. And you cannot tell me that her perspective is in any way unique, that she has something to say that no adult is saying. So why her? It's child exploitation.

Ignore her then!

 

[Ziggurat]

And yet:

"When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them."

"My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation."

I know you think you refuted me, but you didn't. What effect do you think it has on a child when a parent gives the child the reigns, lets them basically take charge? Do you think that's good for the child? Do you think that doesn't have any effect on the development of the child? In that situation, the parent isn't actually out of the equation, they're just moulding the child in a different manner. And not a healthy one.

 

[Ziggurat]

Ignore her then!

How will me ignoring her get her out of the spotlight? That doesn't suffice.

 

[Matthew Best]

You're (in part) providing the spotlight by going on and on about someone you claim no-one should pay any attention to.

 

[GlennB]

And BTW, she has been very much moulded by her parents. How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

 

[Matthew Best]

I know you think you refuted me, but you didn't.

Yes, I did. You said "How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her."

And I pointed out that it was not from her parents. That's a refutation.

You're welcome.

 

[GlennB]

I know you think you refuted me, but you didn't. What effect do you think it has on a child when a parent gives the child the reigns, lets them basically take charge? Do you think that's good for the child? Do you think that doesn't have any effect on the development of the child? In that situation, the parent isn't actually out of the equation, they're just moulding the child in a different manner. And not a healthy one.

I was busily typing that this would be your response but went back to check something, only to find you'd made it. Wild claim refuted is followed by a desperate attempt to save face.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yes, I did. You said "How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her."

And I pointed out that it was not from her parents. That's a refutation.

You're welcome.

You don't seem to understand how parenting actually works. The information doesn't have to come directly from the parents. How the parents react to that information will guide the child just as much, of not more, than the information itself. And what the parents did is basically tell her that all her fears were right, that she was correct to worry and obsess about this, that it should dominate her life. And so it has.

 

[Matthew Best]

You don't seem to understand how parenting actually works. The information doesn't have to come directly from the parents. How the parents react to that information will guide the child just as much, of not more, than the information itself. And what the parents did is basically tell her that all her fears were right, that she was correct to worry and obsess about this, that it should dominate her life. And so it has.

You don't seem to understand how a discussion on a forum works.

You know that I literally quoted what you said, and refuted it, right?

Now you're rushing to move the goalposts somewhere else, which I totally understand.

 

[Dave Rogers]

And what the parents did is basically tell her that all her fears were right, that she was correct to worry and obsess about this, that it should dominate her life.

If she has Asperger's, the parents would only have needed to tell her that her fears were justified by the facts. Worrying and obsessing about it to the point where it dominates her life would then stem from her condition, as it so often does; and if it hadn't been climate change, it would have been something else. By your argument I'm a bad parent for reading my son Thomas the Tank Engine stories. At least Greta's obsessing about something in a way that might actually do some good on a global scale.

Dave

 

[Ziggurat]

If she has Asperger's, the parents would only have needed to tell her that her fears were justified by the facts. Worrying and obsessing about it to the point where it dominates her life would then stem from her condition, as it so often does; and if it hadn't been climate change, it would have been something else.

That's not a given at all. Aspies often develop very strong interests in some narrow subject, but it doesn't have to be something which causes them anxiety.

By your argument I'm a bad parent for reading my son Thomas the Tank Engine stories.

If Thomas the Tank Engine were traumatizing your son, then yes, you would be a bad parent for continuing to read them to your son. I suspect it's not, but you're in a better position to evaluate that than me.

At least Greta's obsessing about something in a way that might actually do some good on a global scale.

And this is the justification for basically sacrificing her.

 

[Ziggurat]

You don't seem to understand how a discussion on a forum works.

You know that I literally quoted what you said,

Correct.

and refuted it, right?

Incorrect.

Now you're rushing to move the goalposts somewhere else, which I totally understand.

No, I don't think you do.

 

[Dave Rogers]

That's not a given at all. Aspies often develop very strong interests in some narrow subject, but it doesn't have to be something which causes them anxiety.

Not always, but it's not generally open to choice or revision whether it causes them anxiety. And one thing more or less guaranteed to make it worse is trying to prevent them following those interests.

If Thomas the Tank Engine were traumatizing your son, then yes, you would be a bad parent for continuing to read them to your son. I suspect it's not, but you're in a better position to evaluate that than me.

No need to continue. I read them to him when he was at an appropriate age to have them read to him, and stopped long ago. Many years on, they still rule his life.

And this is the justification for basically sacrificing her.

No, just an observation. Her parents, it seems to me, were simply honest to her; apparently they should have lied to her about global warming being real, or pretended governments were actually doing something effective about it.

Dave

 

[Matthew Best]

Correct.

Incorrect.

No, I don't think you do.

You're adorable.

 

[GlennB]

That's not a given at all. Aspies often develop very strong interests in some narrow subject, but it doesn't have to be something which causes them anxiety.

You began by suggesting they foisted this interest upon her, now you're saying they failed to deter it? And all of this based on your interpretation of her mental condition?

And this is the justification for basically sacrificing her.

They 'sacrificed her'? Dear FSM. Looks like the child protection people in Sweden should take action.

From where I sit, however, she seems to be doing pretty well.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

It's obviously a generational thing...

It is extremely likely that Greta knows more about Climate change than anyone ever did at her age: this generation has grown up with fast access to massive knowledge and easy means to connect to experts.

Older generations should be very careful with how they treat "kids" these days: we usually don't even known about the things that we might need to know about.

 

[Ziggurat]

Not always, but it's not generally open to choice or revision whether it causes them anxiety.

It's open to a lot of modification.

And one thing more or less guaranteed to make it worse is trying to prevent them following those interests.

Not putting her on a global stage doesn't equate with stifling her interests. Hell, making her go to school like a normal kid doesn't equate with stifling her interests either.

No need to continue. I read them to him when he was at an appropriate age to have them read to him, and stopped long ago. Many years on, they still rule his life.

And that's only a bad thing if they impact him negatively.

Thunberg is being impacted negatively.

No, just an observation. Her parents, it seems to me, were simply honest to her; apparently they should have lied to her about global warming being real, or pretended governments were actually doing something effective about it.

Dave

False dichotomy. You don't have to lie. But you don't have to flatter this idea that she's doomed. She isn't. Climate change won't ruin her life. But she thinks it will:
https://twitter.com/Cam_Cawthorne/status/1176523166107295746
Unless she's acting (which is a whole different problem), then that is a traumatized child. And yeah, her parents are responsible for that.

 

[catsmate]

Yeah, I noticed that Dinesh D’Souza was making some ridiculous parallel with Nazi propaganda and plaited hair. See the left and the Nazis are the same!

Strange how a teenage girl scares so many people.

 

[Ziggurat]

You began by suggesting they foisted this interest upon her, now you're saying they failed to deter it? And all of this based on your interpretation of her mental condition?

No. Based upon her own representation. She's saying her childhood was stolen. That's a pretty big deal. Unless she's lying, then she's been traumatized.

From where I sit, however, she seems to be doing pretty well.

She claims otherwise. Is she lying?

 

[catsmate]

I read a couple of days ago she says she can see carbon dioxide.

I'm sorry, but Lol

Citation Required.