Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[Pixel42]

The best and brightest Brexiteers haven't a clue. So what that says about the other 17.499 million is fairly obvious. Wouldn't trust any of them to sit the right way round on the toilet.

Snapped this in the ladies loo in a railway station in Switzerland. None of us could believe it, but perhaps it really is necessary for some people.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

This site breaks down what was and was not said pre-Referendum re the single market and customs union. It's more complicated than this, but the tl/dr version is "everybody said that we would leave the single market".

Or more accurately everyone kind of said we would leave the single market while insisting (lying?) that we would keep the benefits of staying in and being careful not to actually be too clear on what they actually meant in case it gave the game away on them being deliberately vague.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

FTFY

I don't see any benefit of counting people who didn't vote either way. At best it just suggests they don't care either way.

 

[uke2se]

In fairness access is not the same as being in it.

Technically, but not functionally. With "access to the single market" one refers to the access the UK currently enjoys. Not the kind of "access" countries outside of the EU has. It was a deliberately vague way of phrasing the issue in order to sow confusion.

 

[Lothian]

Or more accurately everyone kind of said we would leave the single market while insisting (lying?) that we would keep the benefits of staying in and being careful not to actually be too clear on what they actually meant in case it gave the game away on them being deliberately vague.

The vote leave website still says "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of"

Free trade means no customs duty, no import taxes, no quotas. Effectively a customs union.

 

[Nessie]

Snapped this in the ladies loo in a railway station in Switzerland. None of us could believe it, but perhaps it really is necessary for some people.

Squatting is how the majority of people in the world go to the toilet. The body is better designed to squat and poo than sit as the rectum is straighter.

 

[Lothian]

Squatting is how the majority of people in the world go to the toilet. The body is better designed to squat and poo than sit as the rectum is straighter.

I have seen the same signs in the Uk

 

[Nessie]

I have seen the same signs in the Uk

The only place in Europe I have seen squatting toilets is France.

 

[ponderingturtle]

And yet Leavers said that the UK would retain access to the single market. The confusion is due to Brexiteers lying.

Or simply rejecting objective reality and substituting their own. After all the UK is too important to german car companies to let little things like free movement and abiding by EU standard jeopardize their access to the UK market.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Technically, but not functionally. With "access to the single market" one refers to the access the UK currently enjoys. Not the kind of "access" countries outside of the EU has. It was a deliberately vague way of phrasing the issue in order to sow confusion.

Oh yes, it was deliberate to sow confusion no doubt but having access to the market and being in are different.

I think giving them the benefit of the doubt on the claim they assumed there would be an FTA between the UK and EU.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The vote leave website still says "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of"

Free trade means no customs duty, no import taxes, no quotas. Effectively a customs union.

Or having an FTA with the EU.

As I say deliberately vague and designed to mislead but not a direct lie.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

It's also worth remembering that the UK government is also attempting to rip up the GFA by insisting that Northern Irish people are automatically British rather than Irish when dealing with their rights.

 

[Wudang]

Snapped this in the ladies loo in a railway station in Switzerland. None of us could believe it, but perhaps it really is necessary for some people.

Do they get a lot of people from China and regions? I saw signs like this in many places in Hong Kong many years ago.

 

[Wudang]

But the idea of a backstop was not the UK's idea. I think that was the poster's point.

Only in the sense that the UK had not thought of the implications of having a border between the UK and the EU when the UK was degraded to 3rd country status. The EU offered the idea of a backstop to be helpful.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

It's also worth remembering that the UK government is also attempting to rip up the GFA by insisting that Northern Irish people are automatically British rather than Irish when dealing with their rights.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Or more accurately everyone kind of said we would leave the single market while insisting (lying?) that we would keep the benefits of staying in and being careful not to actually be too clear on what they actually meant in case it gave the game away on them being deliberately vague.

And of course now they are insisting that they can have totally open borders with the EU without being in any kind of customs union and the EU is being mean for saying there would need to be border checks if the UK was out of the customs union.

 

[Wudang]

Or more accurately everyone kind of said we would leave the single market while insisting (lying?) that we would keep the benefits of staying in and being careful not to actually be too clear on what they actually meant in case it gave the game away on them being deliberately vague.

And this is one way Labour are losing a lot of votes. There are always "Remain friendly" statements but try to tie them to actual endorsed party policy. Shell game.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

And of course now they are insisting that they can have totally open borders with the EU without being in any kind of customs union and the EU is being mean for saying there would need to be border checks if the UK was out of the customs union.

You're arguing with a position that has confused itself with its own misdirection.

Any kind of open border was tossed out by the Brexit supporters. That point of negotiation collapsed long before any votes because it meant the four freedoms and that conflicted with "taking back control" rhetoric. Then the EU, representing a valid concern of a member-state (the one now contemplating a land border with an outside state), started offering ideas on how to address that.

Once FTA and/or CU were off the table, this issue was the natural default.

So all the howling of contempt at the devious EU for inventing this issue for crafty-cunning reasons of negotiating prowess is just an ego defense so they don't have to deal with the fact they did this to themselves (and everyone else).

 

[angrysoba]

Snapped this in the ladies loo in a railway station in Switzerland. None of us could believe it, but perhaps it really is necessary for some people.

I have seen the same signs in the Uk

Do they get a lot of people from China and regions? I saw signs like this in many places in Hong Kong many years ago.

That's basically it. These signs are quite common in Japan, and although squat toilets are fairly common in Japan, pretty much everyone knows how to use a sitting toilet. The signs tend to be in high tourist areas presumably for Chinese tourists.

 

[angrysoba]

It's also worth remembering that the UK government is also attempting to rip up the GFA by insisting that Northern Irish people are automatically British rather than Irish when dealing with their rights.

I think that is overstating things. Everyone born in Northern Ireland has Irish and therefore EU citizenship. Unless they refuse it.