Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread Part 2

Marcus said:
It's still early, but at this point it appears to be Warren against Biden. Biden is ahead, but has plenty of time for another manifestation of foot-in-mouth disease. If it ends up being Trump vs Pocahontas, I have serious doubts as to whether she can prevail. Bernie even worse, if he wins the nomination it will be a disaster.
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I believe you misjudge Sanders and Warren's chances. Indeed, I think they have a greater chances of beating Trump than Biden does or Clinton did: They can siphon off some of the anti-establishment votes from Trump that Biden nor Clinton could ever hope to do.
 
Cabbage said:
I believe you misjudge Sanders and Warren's chances. Indeed, I think they have a greater chances of beating Trump than Biden does or Clinton did: They can siphon off some of the anti-establishment votes from Trump that Biden nor Clinton could ever hope to do.
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Warren is a lawyer, a politician, and a registered Democrat for her entire political career. Between her legal career, her political consulting career, and her political career as such, I'm having a hard time figuring out how swing voters would see her as anti establishment.
 
Cabbage said:
Yeah, there's that old anachronistic fallacy again. Find me some evidence that she knew it was not a plurality at the time in question. Not now, you know. Back then.
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And I also want to mention (while I'm at it) that even if you do find such evidence, it means nothing (of course, if you fail to find such evidence your argument does fall apart): Be sure to note that identification with an ethnicity is subjective: Your opinion is not universal so if she fails to abide by it, that in no way implies she is lying--she may simply have a different idea on what it means to be x ethnically.
 
theprestige said:
Warren is a lawyer, a politician, and a registered Democrat for her entire political career. Between her legal career, her political consulting career, and her political career as such, I'm having a hard time figuring out how swing voters would see her as anti establishment.
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Oh, so you don't remember my answer from the last time, huh?


Cabbage said:
theprestige said:
This is a good insight. However, I don't think Warren is perceived by many as being outside the Democrat establishment.
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I think she's perceived by many as not being in the pockets of corporations, which is a big part of being in or out of the establishment.
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theprestige said:
Warren is a lawyer, a politician, and a registered Democrat for her entire political career. Between her legal career, her political consulting career, and her political career as such, I'm having a hard time figuring out how swing voters would see her as anti establishment.
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She would probably/possibly get some of these voters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama-Trump_voters

The most notable aspect of her legal career was her work as an academic researching ("exposing") the modern causes of bankruptcy.

What do you mean when you refer to her "political consulting career"?
 
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Marcus said:
It's still early, but at this point it appears to be Warren against Biden. Biden is ahead, but has plenty of time for another manifestation of foot-in-mouth disease. If it ends up being Trump vs Pocahontas, I have serious doubts as to whether she can prevail. Bernie even worse, if he wins the nomination it will be a disaster.
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Biden's brain is turning into jello. He answered a question about reparations in the last debate by rambling on about:

"The teachers are reca — Now, I’m married to a teacher. My deceased wife is a teacher. They have every problem coming to them. [Closes eyes briefly] We have make sure that every single child does in fact have three, four, and five year-olds go to school — school, not daycare. School. We bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. It’s not that they don’t wanna help, they don’t want — they don’t know quite what to do. Play the radio, make sure the television, [closes eyes tightly] the — ‘scuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night, the-the-the-the phone, make sure the kids hear words."

A debate between him and Trump would probably be entertaining, though.
 
Cabbage said:
Yeah, there's that old anachronistic fallacy again. Find me some evidence that she knew it was not a plurality at the time in question. Not now, you know. Back then.
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What an amusing and asinine challenge. As if Warren was unaware of 31/32 of her background. I hope you appreciate how unlikely that is.

But if I come across anything, I'll post it.
 
It would be an interesting debate (between Biden and Trump). Although he does have this way of spacing out, you get the feeling his brain contains a hundred times the information of Trumps. He needs to have a good night, but if he does he could wipe the floor with Trump.
 
varwoche said:
What an amusing and asinine challenge. As if Warren was unaware of 31/32 of her background. I hope you appreciate how unlikely that is.
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How would she be aware of it without a DNA test to be sure? And don't tell me "her family tree" because every damn one in her family tree would have the same uncertainty she has.

Quit whining to me that you can't back your position up. LOL! As if you thought your obvious logical fallacies would go unnoticed by me...

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...and now that I've called you out on them you fail to produce.


But if I come across anything, I'll post it.
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I won't hold my breath.

Man you just can't admit you're wrong, can you?
 
Marcus said:
It would be an interesting debate (between Biden and Trump). Although he does have this way of spacing out, you get the feeling his brain contains a hundred times the information of Trumps. He needs to have a good night, but if he does he could wipe the floor with Trump.
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I actually don't get the impression he does have a lot more info in his brain than Trump does, honestly.

And on the topic of who would wipe the floor with who, it could go either way, I think, depending on their relative functioning level that night.

Trump is gifted at being a bully. He's coherent and quick when he's just being mean. He might be able to bait Biden into an insult-hurling type fight.
 
Stacyhs said:
The best rebuttal to Trump's insult hurling is to simply reply with "Grow up, Donald."
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Yeah. I've known a couple of viscous narcissists in my life, and they blow a fuse if you just talk down to them. I honestly doubt Biden has what it takes to rattle the guy, though. Hillary did. He was scared of her. In the back of his mind, he's aware of it when he's in the presence of someone significantly more intelligent than himself, I suspect (he probably frames it in his mind as dealing with someone with more "booksmarts", or something like that.)
 
Cavemonster said:
That makes it somewhat less casual, but I'm not so sure it changes the core evaluation here.

Whether her action there is read as deceipt, mistake, incompetence or nothing of consquence still hinges on what she thought the purpose of the prompt was.

The difference between checking a box or writing two words doesn't change that. If I had to write out my birthdate longhand and scan it in in order to be admitted to the Jonny Walker site, it doesn't make it more of a misrepresentation than simply choosing the wrong menu items so long as I still believe that I'm not decieving anybody with an active interest in that detail.
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I often put the wrong date of birth on internet forms because:

(a) you have to protect yourself from identity theft (I know people who lie about their mother's maiden name for this reason)

(b) usually it is none of their business.

However, if I lie about my age in order to gain an advantage I am not entitled to, then that is deception.
 
kellyb said:
Yeah. I've known a couple of viscous narcissists in my life, and they blow a fuse if you just talk down to them. I honestly doubt Biden has what it takes to rattle the guy, though. Hillary did. He was scared of her. In the back of his mind, he's aware of it when he's in the presence of someone significantly more intelligent than himself, I suspect (he probably frames it in his mind as dealing with someone with more "booksmarts", or something like that.)
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I suspect a huge part of Trump's constant digging at Obama is for the same reason. He knows he can't hold a candle to Obama in any way. I'm not talking about political philosophy or platform, but about Obama being far more intelligent, classy, and respected in the world. Trump looks like a country bumpkin next to Obama. He'll never measure up to Obama and he knows it, thus his need to deride Obama and undue everything he did during his presidency.

I would have loved to see Trump and Obama in a debate. Obama would have wiped the floor with him.
 
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