Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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Don't think it's in Victor Orban's interest to aid Boris Johnson to take the UK out of the EU. Orban needs to be seen as a victim of EU oppression, but he clearly realizes that Hungary needs to the EU more than the EU needs Hungary. Thus, aiding a fellow populist to destroy his country on the sly isn't really playing the game well.
 
uke2se said:
Don't think it's in Victor Orban's interest to aid Boris Johnson to take the UK out of the EU. Orban needs to be seen as a victim of EU oppression, but he clearly realizes that Hungary needs to the EU more than the EU needs Hungary. Thus, aiding a fellow populist to destroy his country on the sly isn't really playing the game well.
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What are you? One of those traitors like Churchill that thinks there should be a united states of Europe and think people should think about the greater good?
 
The Don said:
Looks like government will be suspended later today to allow Boris Johnson and his cronies as much time as possible to find a way not to ask for an extension or to have that request refused. The proposed methods may be familiar to followers of this thread:




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49630094
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I just wonder if Boris would turn up with a handwritten scrawl saying, "Giz an extension, luv Bojo!" throw it across the table and then put his bare feet up on a desk, and then call everyone a bunch of turds.

"Look, I did it! I asked for an extension and they were very rude to me!"
 
Darat said:
What are you? One of those traitors like Churchill that thinks there should be a united states of Europe and think people should think about the greater good?
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Yes. That's the sort of traitor I am. Sorry. :o
 
angrysoba said:
I just wonder if Boris would turn up with a handwritten scrawl saying, "Giz an extension, luv Bojo!" throw it across the table and then put his bare feet up on a desk, and then call everyone a bunch of turds.

"Look, I did it! I asked for an extension and they were very rude to me!"
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The form of the request letter is spelled out in the bill so no he can't. And I think any childish efforts to thwart it will be pulled up in a court.
 
True, it could just be a tactic to try to force a general election. Just as today's supposed leak from 10 Downing Street that the Tories would actually lose seats in a general election.

But, at the same time, I don't think Johnson has any intention of asking for an extension.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
True, it could just be a tactic to try to force a general election. Just as today's supposed leak from 10 Downing Street that the Tories would actually lose seats in a general election.

But, at the same time, I don't think Johnson has any intention of asking for an extension.
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Which is the same as me saying I have no intention of paying my tax. If the law requires it he will damn well just have to. I think that's why he is now talking about getting a deal because the only way he is going to avoid an extension is getting Parliament to approval the WA.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The form of the request letter is spelled out in the bill so no he can't. And I think any childish efforts to thwart it will be pulled up in a court.
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Ah! So I see.

Anyway, the government are just going to plow on regardless of what the law says, it appears.

Who knows where this trainwreck is heading...
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Which is the same as me saying I have no intention of paying my tax. If the law requires it he will damn well just have to. I think that's why he is now talking about getting a deal because the only way he is going to avoid an extension is getting Parliament to approval the WA.
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He's painted himself into a corner.

a) He is now talking about how a no-deal would be a failure of leadership "for everyone". If that's his attempt to get the EU27 to freak out, then it is ridiculous. It only shows his own vulnerability - something he has been trying to deflect away because of his "secret plans".

b) He would lose pretty much his only backers - the ERG and DUP - if he managed to arm-twist Parliament into accepting the Withdrawal Agreement. Politically he is dead in a ditch.

c) He asks for an extension, he is literally dead in a ditch apparently.

d) He doesn't ask for an extension, he risks jail. Maybe a skilled politician would avoid it, but that's not him.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Which is the same as me saying I have no intention of paying my tax. If the law requires it he will damn well just have to.
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He could resign, as has been rumoured he would if today's vote doesn't go his way.

I think that's why he is now talking about getting a deal because the only way he is going to avoid an extension is getting Parliament to approval the WA.
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That's not going to happen, though.
 
angrysoba said:
Ah! So I see.

Anyway, the government are just going to plow on regardless of what the law says, it appears.

Who knows where this trainwreck is heading...
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One of the only two possible outcomes, no deal or no Brexit.

As the default* no deal is the most likely by a considerable margin.


*- parliament has had three years to change the default from being no-deal but has been unwilling and/or unable to do so. IMO Jeremy Corbyn's fantasy of rescuing Brexit has been the single greatest factor in this still being the case. He deserves equal billing in the Rogues' Gallery when the impact of the no-deal Brexit becomes apparent.:mad:
 
from badscience

Little waster said:
Israeli PM mixes up Boris Johnson with Boris Yeltsin.


One's an overweight buffoonish alcoholic whose shambolic governing style turned their once-proud country into an international laughing stock and societal and economic basket-case while the other .... oh forget it I can't even ...
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angrysoba said:
He's painted himself into a corner.

a) He is now talking about how a no-deal would be a failure of leadership "for everyone". If that's his attempt to get the EU27 to freak out, then it is ridiculous. It only shows his own vulnerability - something he has been trying to deflect away because of his "secret plans".

b) He would lose pretty much his only backers - the ERG and DUP - if he managed to arm-twist Parliament into accepting the Withdrawal Agreement. Politically he is dead in a ditch.

c) He asks for an extension, he is literally dead in a ditch apparently.

d) He doesn't ask for an extension, he risks jail. Maybe a skilled politician would avoid it, but that's not him.
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He doesn't want a deal, or at least not any deal that's possible in the real world. His paymasters want a no-deal Brexit and he's determined to give it to him.

Perhaps there's enough ambiguity in the legislation that has passed to allow him to find some way of avoiding asking for an extension or avoiding having the request granted.

Perhaps he can claim that whatever conditions that the EU put around granting the extension are unacceptable to the UK (or he can at least burn a lot of parliamentary time arguing that's the case for the clock to run down).
 
The Don said:
He doesn't want a deal, or at least not any deal that's possible in the real world. His paymasters want a no-deal Brexit and he's determined to give it to him.
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I don't know. The reason I said he has painted himself into a corner is because of statements like this:

Johnson refused to answer questions about the Irish border or when he had last visited it, but said his preference was for a deal.

The two agreed there would be no breakthrough at their hour-long meeting on Monday morning but Johnson was confident the Irish border backstop could be replaced.

“Like you, I’ve looked carefully at no deal and I’ve assessed its consequences,” he said. “Be in no doubt, that outcome would be a failure of statecraft of which we would all be responsible. I would overwhelmingly prefer a solution.”
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If he is trying to get a no-deal then he is simultaneously destroying his reputation in advance.
 
angrysoba said:
I don't know. The reason I said he has painted himself into a corner is because of statements like this:



If he is trying to get a no-deal then he is simultaneously destroying his reputation in advance.
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IMO that's an attempt to transfer blame for the no-deal to the EU in general and Ireland in particular - nothing more, nothing less.
 
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