The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[Vixen]

For anyone to claim that any image is Photoshopped they need to come up with the original to make the comparison and substantiate the claim. Either that or provide proof from a technical expert that the image has been tampered with. Otherwise it's baloney as usual.

Hoots

Not my finding, Guv, it's the court's finding.

*Read the court documents*.

 

[Vixen]

I notice you fail to mention Vinci used the actual bathmat to take his measurements, whereas the prosecution experts used crime scene photographs, and used photoshop to adjust the photos because the original perspective was wrong (i.e., was not a photo from directly above).

You call Vinci a "crook" solely because you don't like his conclusion. However, Vinci was more professional in his analysis than the prosecution's "qualified engineers and forensic experts" in as much as he used the actual bathmat and the prosecution did not.

He's was caught out shall we say massaging his images so it is OK to call him a crook as a court of law demands honesty.

 

[Vixen]

You assume Meredith made the phone calls, draw conclusions based solely on your assumption, and believe you are being logical.

Yesterday I learned a new word - mumpsimus. I immediately thought of our one and only.

Oh dear. <sfx knock knock knock>.

If Rudy left the scene as soon as poss (his bloody footsteps trail leads straight out of the door) then who came back at 10:15??!!!


Remember: according to Rolfe, 'Mez was dead as soon as she walked in the door at nine'.


Do keep up.

 

[Bill Williams]

Lovely grandstanding. However, you either haven't read the court documents, which clearly establish Mez was almost certainly killed around about the time her phone was cut off, 10:20-ish, the same time more than a few witnesses heard load thuds, screams and shouts, so your off the hoof claim 'she died at nine' comes across as mischievous and an attempt to move the time to when you believe Knox had an alibi.

Why do you have the need to do this?

Please stop using the familiar name for the victim.

 

[Vixen]

I think the most logical inference one can draw from this lack of consensus between experts is that it is more likely not RS's footprint for one very glaring reason: if it had been RS's footprint, the pair would certainly NOT have pointed it out to the police. They would have either washed the mat or removed it. But, in order to explain this extremely illogical behavior, Vixen has asserted that the two were trying to put one over on the police for kicks. Somehow, in her mind, that makes some kind of sense.



Obviously he had to have cleaned up his bloody footprints between MK's bedroom and the mat in the bathroom in order to hide his participation...but then left his bloody print on the mat in order to show the police that he could get away with it. Vixen Logic 101. How can you not see that?

You are doing it again: would, could, should.

Had it been Rudy's footprint, do you think he would have taken time out to clean up the surrounding area. He didn't have a police record; there is no reason he would have thought police would ever trace him. He had zero motive to clean up the place.

Whereas Knox and Solly on the other hand...

 

[Vixen]

The above is what I asked Vixen. Below is the answer I received, which, unsurprisingly, had absolutely nothing to do with what she was asked:






Yes, she believes it logical that MK would not know a prefix was required to call her bank in England even though she called England at least once every day. Then, when the call fails to go through, it's also logical that she wouldn't just redial because suddenly the reason for calling her bank in the first place no longer exists. Makes much more sense than Guede messing about with her phone!



I can't kemo sabe why you'd make the connection!

Think about it: either the call was made accidentally on speed dial due to the phone being knocked (we have all accidentally rang a number having forgotten to lock the phone in our pocket), for example, knocked on the floor in the struggle (most likely), or Mez tried to call for help, or the perp was ******* about with it.

Remember, Rudy according to Rolfe left at nine.

 

[Vixen]

T

I can't kemo sabe why you'd make the connection!

FIFY

 

[Vixen]

Do you just not pay attention to anything? Didn't LJ, just yesterday, point out the calls were made around 22:00, so it's only one hour. And here you are, the very next day repeating the same "one and a half hours" lie.

Perhaps you're missing the point... Meredith would NOT have made the mistakes in dialing, which proves Meredith was not doing the dialing, which means Meredith was already dead by 22:00. So much for the prosecution's claim of the murder happening after 23:00.

He's got it, by Jove, he's got it! If Mez 'was dead at nine', it OBVIOUSLY couldn't have been her but must have been her roommate, the only person who had the key to the property who was around that night.

You know no such thing. All that means is he stepped in blood before heading for the door. He could have spent 45 mins in Meredith's bedroom before he decided to leave, and left the trail then.


No, we know they do have an alibi, you just choose to pretend otherwise. Their alibi is they spent the evening alone at Raffaele's apartment, and there is computer evidence - accepted by the prosecution - that puts them there at least until 21:26.

And no, they had one - and only one - alibi. We've dismantled the nonsense at the fake wiki numerous times. Congratulations on the police confusing Raffaele on what day of the week something took place and got him to tell them of the night of Halloween (and there is NO doubt that is what he did) which couldn't possibly have been the events of the night of the murder. If the police actually cared about the truth they could have easily determined he had the wrong day, but that wasn't their objective, now was it. Otherwise, the alibi has always been the same.


He never withdrew his alibi for Knox, and to this day he still says they spent the evening alone, together, in his place. Where do you come up with this crap?


It matters because we KNOW it is not possible to narrow the location of where someone made a call to a cottage. Typically they can triangulate and get within a few blocks, but in this case all they did was look to see what mast handled the call attempts. That mast would easily handle the area near Lana's garden. So no, it is not proven the calls were made from the cottage. But even if they were, that does not mean it wasn't Guede, in the cottage, making the calls. That is, unless you have some evidence that Guede left the cottage before 22:00.

If 'nothing was stolen' - and the phones were still at the cottage at 10:15 (we know this because this was established as a fact found by a criminal court of law and arising from expert telecommunications testimony) - then someone who was living, other than Mez, is responsible for their subsequent removal.

It was Amanda Knox who rang both phones extremely briefly next day to check up on them but without bothering to wait for a reply. She knew Mez was not going to answer any time soon.

 

[Vixen]

This is exactly why Vixen has refused to address my post regarding the failure to use the prefix for England. She can't. When Vixen can't address something with any reasonable explanation, she ignores the question and hopes we don't notice. We do.





Exactly. This would also explain why MK's body was covered. If he had left immediately after killing her, he would not have bothered covering her. It's logical that he would have stayed for some time while he tried to figure out what to do but he didn't want to look at what he'd done so he covered her.

Cue Vixen telling us MK was covered by Amanda because only a woman would cover a body.

IMV the body was covered by the persons doing the cleaning up as they couldn't bear to see her gazing eyes.

 

[Vixen]

This is your reminder about that call. I understand this was Meredith's home phone, so it wasn't set up to dial British numbers as international ones (i.e. with the +44 prefix). The "bank" was what was previously known as the Abbey National Building Society, which became a bank some time when these moves were popular. Abbey.

Numbers were stored in these phones in alphabetical order. If you hit the button for the contacts list, the one at the top would be the one highest up the alphabet. In the phone I had at that time the top number was listed as "Andrea". Andrea died of brain cancer in the summer of 2006 and several times in the months afterwards I upset myself by accidentally dialling the top number on the list and suddenly heard Andrea's voicemail answer as from beyond the grave.

The time of that call would have been about 9 pm in England. Why on earth would Meredith have wanted to call her bank at that time. It's well past the end of normal banking hours. I don't even know if you could do anything by automatic no-human-on-the-line banking at that time. I think the likelihood that Meredith had some pressing balance transfer she needed to organise is very slight, indeed nonexistent.

Accidentally calling the top alphabetical contact number when fiddling with your phone isn't hard. Doing that when it's not even your phone and you're trying to figure out how it works is very easy. I think it's beyond reasonable doubt that the Abbey number was called by mistake, by someone who was trying to do something else with the phone but hit the contacts list and hit call by mistake.

Was that person Meredith, or someone else? What do you think? The existence of that call is certainly no sort of proof that the phone was in Meredith's hands at the time, or indeed that the phone was even inside the cottage (mobile phone cells being a fair bit wider than a single house).

Er. I thought you said she was 'dead for sure at nine'.

Now you are cleverly claiming it could not have been Mez who made the call to Abbey National at ten-fifteen.

The brilliance is astonishing.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs
I think the most logical inference one can draw from this lack of consensus between experts is that it is more likely not RS's footprint for one very glaring reason: if it had been RS's footprint, the pair would certainly NOT have pointed it out to the police. They would have either washed the mat or removed it. But, in order to explain this extremely illogical behavior, Vixen has asserted that the two were trying to put one over on the police for kicks. Somehow, in her mind, that makes some kind of sense.

Obviously he had to have cleaned up his bloody footprints between MK's bedroom and the mat in the bathroom in order to hide his participation...but then left his bloody print on the mat in order to show the police that he could get away with it. Vixen Logic 101. How can you not see that?

You are doing it again: would, could, should.

Yes, I used the words "would" and "could" where they were grammatically correct and logical.

Had it been Rudy's footprint, do you think he would have taken time out to clean up the surrounding area. He didn't have a police record; there is no reason he would have thought police would ever trace him. He had zero motive to clean up the place.

You're doing it again: would, could should...

Since the surrounding area was not cleaned up, what he might do or not do is a moot point. Unless, of course, you can present any evidence produced in court showing that there was a clean up in the bathroom? (Hint: there wasn't)

Guede did have his fingerprints on file as an immigrant. He knew that. In fact, that is how the police identified him.

He had every motive to clean up as he left behind his fingerprints, bloody palm print and bloody shoe prints, but he didn't clean up. No one did as the evidence clearly shows.

Whereas Knox and Solly on the other hand...

....not only didn't clean up "RS's" bloody footprint, they pointed it out to the police. That rather contradicts you assertion.

Face it: you cannot give a logical reason why RS and AK would make a point of telling the police about the rug with the bloody footprint. Not even you, with your talent for twisting yourself into a pretzel, can explain that.

 

[Stacyhs]

Think about it: either the call was made accidentally on speed dial due to the phone being knocked (we have all accidentally rang a number having forgotten to lock the phone in our pocket), for example, knocked on the floor in the struggle (most likely), or Mez tried to call for help, or the perp was ******* about with it.

Remember, Rudy according to Rolfe left at nine.

Abbey Bank was not on speed dial. It was listed first in the directory. Unless you think butt dialing or being knocked to the floor opens up the directory and then chooses which number to call.....

or the perp was ******* about with it.

DING, DING, DING! Give the lady a red balloon! She finally got it. And that 'perp' was Guede. You know, the guy who didn't know the UK prefix and with the history of stealing cell phones to fence since he had no ******* job!
Think about it.

Remember, not even your beloved Massei has RS or AK mucking about with the phone or it being butt dialed or falling on the floor and accidentally dialing out. He conjectures it was MK lying on her bed playing with it for some unexplained reason a full hour after she arrived home, still fully dressed in her street clothes including her jacket. Yeah...sure. But, somehow, it doesn't surprise me that you find that logical.

 

[Rolfe]

... your off the hoof claim 'she died at nine' ...

Where did I say this? Sourced quote please.

 

[Rolfe]

... 'dead by nine', an ad hoc alibi dreamt up by Rolfe, ...

Where did I say this? Sourced quote please.

 

[Rolfe]

... according to Rolfe, 'Mez was dead as soon as she walked in the door at nine'....

Where did I say this? Sourced quote please. (And I most certainly did not disrespectfully refer to Meredith as "Mez" so you can strike that for a start.)

 

[Rolfe]

... Mez 'was dead at nine',

Who said that? Sourced quote please.

...the phones were still at the cottage at 10:15 (we know this because this was established as a fact...

A court can say what it likes, but it is not possible to pinpoint the position of a mobile phone as precisely as being inside one particular house according to which mast it was in contact with.

 

[Stacyhs]

IMV the body was covered by the persons doing the cleaning up as they couldn't bear to see her gazing eyes.

LOL! Was this the clean up where Knox and Sollecito removed only their own invisible DNA and fingerprints while leaving only Guede's? Did they have special glasses that identified the location and identity of this invisible DNA and fingerprints?

Why do you continue to insist that there was a clean up in that bedroom when it has been accepted by ALL COURTS, even Massei, that no clean up happened?

 

[Rolfe]

Er. I thought you said she was 'dead for sure at nine'.

No. Could you maybe quote me accurately?

Now you are cleverly claiming it could not have been Mez who made the call to Abbey National at ten-fifteen.

Because she was dead before 10.15, yes, that would make it impossible for it to have been her. And as the circumstances of the call demonstrate that it was almost certainly an accidental call made by someone trying to do something else with the phone, there's no reason at all to contend that it must have been her.

 

[Rolfe]

Remember, Rudy according to Rolfe left at nine.

Where did I say that? Sourced quote please.

 

[Stacyhs]

Once someone told me about the gastrointestinal findings, I knew Meredith must have been killed shortly after getting back into the house. I can't remember when that was. Some time after Stilicho PMed me saying I was a respected poster on the forum and he was sure I'd be on the guilter side and wouldn't I come and participate in the thread?

I blew him off saying that life was too short. Then, as I said, someone else told me about the pizza and the apple crumble and that was that. Sometimes there's a single point which clarifies a case totally, even if it's not what the lawyers are concentrating on, and in this case, that was it.

At the risk of being criticised for bringing up comparisons, I find that in many of the cases I've looked at there is one crucial point which proves that the case against the accused is wrong and that something else must have happened. With Lockerbie it's the understanding that the bomb suitcase was already in the baggage container at Heathrow an hour before the flight it was supposedly carried on touched down from Frankfurt. With Luke Mitchell it's the realisation that Andrina Bryson couldn't physically have seen what she said she saw if she was driving north, therefore she was driving south when she saw it, which shifts the time a crucial 45 minutes later. With Meredith Kercher it's the realisation that there is no evidence at all that she was alive in the cottage for any length of time after arriving there, and the particular circumstances of the timing of her meals demonstrate that she must have been killed very soon after 9 pm.
Once you have grasped that these things are facts which can't be explained away you have to analyse the case around them. So the Lockerbie bomb didn't come from Malta, which means that the accused was not, as claimed, at the scene of the crime. Exculpatory. So there is no evidence at all that Luke Mitchell was not in his own home at 4.50, which means that there is no reason at all to doubt the testimony of his mother and brother who say that he was there until 5.30, which gives him a complete alibi. Exculpatory. So Meredith Kercher was murdered shortly after 9 pm, when I understand that Knox and Sollecito are alibied independently. Exculpatory.

Of course it's interesting to discuss other aspects of the cases, but if you have a firm understanding of a solid fact that is incompatible with the accused person actually being guilty, the discussion proceeds on that basis.

As far as I am concerned unless you have a complete narrative of Meredith's murder where the killing took place shortly after 9 pm and was carried out by Knox and Sollecito, you're whistling in the wind putting forward any case for their guilt.

Hang on, wasn't she supposed to be 'dead by nine', an ad hoc alibi dreamt up by Rolfe, who tries to claim she is an expert so therefore, if she says so it must be true.

Vixen cannot quote Rolfe saying Kercher was "dead by nine" because it never happened. In fact, it was Vixen herself who dreamed that quote up. Vixen misquotes someone then thinks herself so clever trying to throw it back in her face...how embarrassing.

The brilliance is astonishing.