Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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The Scottish parliament building has been criticized, especially for poor management leading to massive cost overruns, but it is based on a more European idea with MSPs in a semicircle to emphasize finding common ground and it has electronic voting. They'd need to read the inquiry though to make sure the same mistakes aren't made.
 
Vixen said:
I really enjoyed last night's latest episode. Boris Johnson well and truly put in his place.
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Not really he is still a free man and PM. While those remain true you can hardly say he has been put into his proper place.
 
The Don said:
Even if the bill passes, and Boris Johnson is required to write a letter to the EU - there's no guarantee that he'll actually do it. After all, if he writes the letter he's screwed so why not refuse to write the letter, what's the worst that can happen ?
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That's exactly why I placed the VNOC on October 21st or thereabout. He's obligated to write it by October 17th, IIRC, the EU council meeting is on October 19th. By October 21st it would be all over, one way or the other, once the extension is agreed nothing BJ does or doesn't do should be able to change it.

Plus I doubt not writing the letter would work at all. EU obviously knows British law better than BJ does and could come up with an answer to Parliament anyway, acting as though he did write the letter. It would be quite unprecendented, there would be a conflict in British democracy: the Executive branch refused to follow a law so it was bypassed in an improper manner. It's precendens-setting and possibly something to be debated in the Old Chambers.

But assuming BJ doesn't write the letter but Parliament gets the response anyway, what can he do? Stomp in front of the people he broke the law to ignore and claim it was improper to have obtained the answer they were seeking?

McHrozni
 
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Jo Johnson, brother of BJ has quit as Tory MP and minister he is "torn between national and family interests".

Is BJ regretting being PM yet?
 
Greebo said:
Jo Johnson, brother of BJ has quit as Tory MP and minister he is "torn between national and family interests".



Is BJ regretting being PM yet?
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To lose one MP, Mr. Johnson, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose 23 looks like carelessness.”
 
McHrozni said:
I think Corbyn agreed to a fresh election, but only after Brexit day. That's easy enough to do, hold a VNOC just after October 19th. Parliament will be out of session most of the time anyway.

McHrozni
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Parliament will have to be in session to approve anything that comes back from the EU Council and make sure everything gets through and royal assent given.

From BJ's POV I'm not sure why he wouldn't just buy time, exit without a deal on Oct 31 and then have the election.

I'm not sure if they have found some legal way to ensure an election is held before Oct 31 which cannot be moved by BJ later
 
McHrozni said:
That's exactly why I placed the VNOC on October 21st or thereabout. He's obligated to write it by October 17th, IIRC, the EU council meeting is on October 19th. By October 21st it would be all over, one way or the other, once the extension is agreed nothing BJ does or doesn't do should be able to change it.

Plus I doubt not writing the letter would work at all. EU obviously knows British law better than BJ does and could come up with an answer to Parliament anyway, acting as though he did write the letter. It would be quite unprecendented, there would be a conflict in British democracy: the Executive branch refused to follow a law so it was bypassed in an improper manner. It's precendens-setting and possibly something to be debated in the Old Chambers.

But assuming BJ doesn't write the letter but Parliament gets the response anyway, what can he do? Stomp in front of the people he broke the law to ignore and claim it was improper to have obtained the answer they were seeking?

McHrozni
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I disagree. It must be after 31 October because otherwise Boris Johnson could simply renege on the extension and take the UK with a no-deal without parliamentary approval (because parliament would be dissolved once the GE announcement had been made).
 
GlennB said:
That's a very silly idea. In fact the idea of splitting locations is also very silly. Are you kidding us?
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Since we're talking about an institution that is searched by costume-wearing men with lanterns to determine there are no bombs hidden underneath, I don't see how something like that could be seen as silly.

As inconvenient perhaps, but not in the setup I described. Silly? Oh my.

McHrozni
 
The Don said:
I disagree. It must be after 31 October because otherwise Boris Johnson could simply renege on the extension and take the UK with a no-deal without parliamentary approval (because parliament would be dissolved once the GE announcement had been made).
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Hm. How would that work? The extension would by then be law, surely.

McHrozni
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Parliament will have to be in session to approve anything that comes back from the EU Council and make sure everything gets through and royal assent given.
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Yes, hold a VNOC right after all that is done.

I'm not sure if they have found some legal way to ensure an election is held before Oct 31 which cannot be moved by BJ later
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Right now there isn't one.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Hm. How would that work? The extension would by then be law, surely.

McHrozni
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Only if it's been accepted and even then he could just declare that it's unacceptable and we're back to the default of leaving without a deal.
 
Greebo said:
Jo Johnson, brother of BJ has quit as Tory MP and minister he is "torn between national and family interests".



Is BJ regretting being PM yet?
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On this I'm not sure what he even means by "family loyalty and the national interest". He was never voted in to do anything for his family, an MP is not meant to be feathering the nest of his family, and certainly a minister isn't meant to be looking out for his family's interests so there is no conflict with family loyalty and the national interest. Or if he says there is then he was never representing his constituency he was always on the take for his family.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Parliament will have to be in session to approve anything that comes back from the EU Council and make sure everything gets through and royal assent given.



From BJ's POV I'm not sure why he wouldn't just buy time, exit without a deal on Oct 31 and then have the election.



I'm not sure if they have found some legal way to ensure an election is held before Oct 31 which cannot be moved by BJ later
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That's why the opposition has to wait until they have a law in place that stops no deal brexit.
 
The Don said:
I disagree. It must be after 31 October because otherwise Boris Johnson could simply renege on the extension and take the UK with a no-deal without parliamentary approval (because parliament would be dissolved once the GE announcement had been made).
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If it was a VONC then Parliament would still technically be sitting wouldn't it? For the 14 days?

If it's an early election under FTPA then I think it wouldn't be.

That's a thought actually... are we at the point where the temporary government idea has legs with the maths?

VONC. Pass second referendum legislation. Have another vote before the end of the year.
 
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