theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Ah, thanks. That makes sense.
Mueller Investigation pt 6
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PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
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The problem is that your position doesn't describe the man that Mueller is. He has played it by the rulebook his entire life, so there was never any chance of him saying "Rules be damned." Your expectations of him go against the very grain of the man.
I would have loved to have seen him walk Trump out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs, but the fact is that he is driven by both a desire for Justice, and a desire to be perfectly fair. That meant that he was not only unable to indict because of the memo, but also that he had to remain fair to Trump and not directly say that Trump committed crimes. That he actually came out and said what he did, that they couldn't exonerate Trump of committing crime, probably already stretched his need to remain fair and impartial to its absolute limit as it was. To expect more really is to not understand the guy.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
I expect this is a typo. In the event that it is it remains remarkably apropos.
If it is not then it is brilliantly done.
In either case I will keep it in mind for later use.
Thanks.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Moved from another thread where it would have been off topic....
Again, you either spin the facts to suit your narrative, or ignore them completely .
The 19 prosecutors and 40 FBI agents were successful in finding what they were looking for.....
1. That members of the Trump campaign were offered help from the Kremlin, and both accepted and used that help, and then lied about it while trying to keep it secret, and
2. That Trump made several blatant attempts to obstruct the investigation into him, and to tamper with witnesses against him.
These ARE the facts, and if you had bothered to actually read the Mueller Report (and I have more than once) you would know this.
INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE DOES NOT MEAN NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!!
The only reason that other members of the Trump campaign have not been prosecuted is that the evidence they DID find was not sufficient to meet the minimum "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" standard.
The only reason Trump has not been charged with obstruction of justice, is because of the OLC Memo that a sitting president cannot be indicted. However, we know that Trump can be indicted once he leaves office (Mueller told us that if you bothered to listen). Ergo, the evidence of obstruction of justice evidence DOES meet BRD standard.
Additionally, 1024 bipartisan former line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice, have now signed their names to an open letter stating that if Trump weren't president of the United States, he would have been indicted on multiple charges for obstruction of justice and witness tampering. All their opinions are based entirely on what Mueller stated in his report.
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statement-by-former-federal-prosecutors-8ab7691c2aa1
Again, you either spin the facts to suit your narrative, or ignore them completely .
The 19 prosecutors and 40 FBI agents were successful in finding what they were looking for.....
1. That members of the Trump campaign were offered help from the Kremlin, and both accepted and used that help, and then lied about it while trying to keep it secret, and
2. That Trump made several blatant attempts to obstruct the investigation into him, and to tamper with witnesses against him.
These ARE the facts, and if you had bothered to actually read the Mueller Report (and I have more than once) you would know this.
INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE DOES NOT MEAN NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!!
The only reason that other members of the Trump campaign have not been prosecuted is that the evidence they DID find was not sufficient to meet the minimum "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" standard.
The only reason Trump has not been charged with obstruction of justice, is because of the OLC Memo that a sitting president cannot be indicted. However, we know that Trump can be indicted once he leaves office (Mueller told us that if you bothered to listen). Ergo, the evidence of obstruction of justice evidence DOES meet BRD standard.
Additionally, 1024 bipartisan former line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice, have now signed their names to an open letter stating that if Trump weren't president of the United States, he would have been indicted on multiple charges for obstruction of justice and witness tampering. All their opinions are based entirely on what Mueller stated in his report.
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statement-by-former-federal-prosecutors-8ab7691c2aa1
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thaiboxerken
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AND the Mueller investigation also scored a net positive of over $10-million.
thaiboxerken
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AND the Mueller investigation also scored a net positive of over $10-million.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
To me at least, there are 2 big questions:
1) Is it possible for someone to attempt to be SO unbiased that their unbias actually becomes a form of bias.
For example, lets say someone says "the earth is flat". You hire someone to determine if the earth is flat. They take all sorts of measurements, talk to all sorts of experts, and at the end they write a report that contains all sorts of technical information that discounts the flat earth theory, without explicitly saying "No dummy, the earth is round". That is giving more credence to the flat earth theory than is allowed.
Now, compare that to the Mueller situation.... there is more than enough evidence to surmise that Trump broke the law. Even if Mueller didn't come right out and say "Trump=guilty", he could have been a bit more direct in his statements, along the lines of "this would warrant charges if he were not the president". Or even give a more direct criticism of Barr's summary. (The law is not always black and white.. there is usually some wiggle room.)
2) Did Mueller go after everyone he could have. Even if Trump himself were off limits, he could have (for example) pursued perjury charges against Trump Jr. and Kushner (which should have fit within his mandate of laying charges in crimes he encounters during his investigations.)
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Squeegee Beckenheim
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Not entirely sure if this is the right thread for this any more, but...: https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1159176245273341961
Article embedded in tweet.
Article embedded in tweet.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
It's as good as any. I am guessing this court process could drag on for years?
tanabear
Critical Thinker
If Mueller is such a straight cat, then it is strange that a federal judge, Dabney Friedrich, had to rebuke Mueller and the Justice department for making claims not backed up by any evidence regarding the IRA(Internet Research Agency), a Russian troll farm specializing in click-bait, and its supposed links to the Russian government.
"...in a newly unsealed July 1 ruling, a federal judge rebuked Mueller and the Justice Department for suggesting that the troll farm's social media activities "were undertaken on behalf of, if not at the direction of, the Russian government." U.S. District Judge Dabney Friedrich said Mueller's February 2018 indictment "does not link the [IRA] to the Russian government" and alleges "only private conduct by private actors." The judge added the government's statements violate a prohibiting lawyers from making claims that would prejudice a case."
RCI
"In short, the Court concludes that the government violated Rule 57.7 by making or authorizing the release of public statements that linked the defendants’ alleged activities to the Russian government and provided an opinion about the defendants’ guilt and the evidence against them. The Court will therefore proceed to consider the appropriate response to that violation, beginning with the possibility of contempt."
The government was ordered "...to refrain from making or authorizing any public statement that links the alleged conspiracy in the indictment to the Russian government or its agencies."
So did Mueller hold his May press conference to avoid a contempt charge? Tom McClintock asked him about his May press conference during his testimony.
McCLINTOCK: In -- in -- in fact, the judge considering -- considered holding prosecutors in criminal contempt. She backed off, only after your hastily called press conference the next day in which you retroactively made the distinction between the Russian government and the Russia troll farms. Did your press conference on May 29th have anything to do with the threat to hold your prosecutors in contempt the previous day for publicly misrepresenting the evidence?
MUELLER: What was the question?
McCLINTOCK: The -- the question is, did your May 29th press conference have anything to do with the fact that the previous day the judge threatened to hold your prosecutors in contempt for misrepresenting evidence?
MUELLER: No.
So did Mueller lie to Congress?
Can you provide some more details on members of the Trump campaign being offered help from the Kremlin and accepting and using that help?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Squeegee Beckenheim
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
There are some particularly interesting essays in there, especially with regards to Mike Flynn
This one by Mimi Rocah...
https://www.justsecurity.org/65863/...ort-a-collection-of-short-essays/#IncidentOne
...and this one by Barb McQuade
https://www.justsecurity.org/65863/...short-essays/#LinksandContactswithRussiaFlynn
Those members of the Trump Transition team (Flynn, KT McFarland, Bannon, Priebus etc) lied and cheated and broke the law routinely and with impunity, on a daily basis!
Skeptic Ginger
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Mueller looks like a traitor himself, providing the report then turning prosecution over to the Criminal in Chief.
I've been listening to Trump's lawyers challenge to the House subpoenas of Deutsche Bank records on Trump, and the case the House is presenting. The Trump lawyers argument is claiming the House cannot investigate Trump's personal finances.
The House lawyers are arguing the Trump family is a "criminal enterprise" involved in money laundering on a massive scale.
How was this "criminal enterprise" not investigated by the FBI years ago?
Turns out Trump's tax records are included in the bank's records. They're going to get Trump's records one way or another.
I can see Rapey McRapeface paying Trump back ruling against the subpoenas, but I can't see Roberts ruling against them. Thomas is a criminal himself, he'll rule in Trump's favor. I have no idea how Alito views a massive "criminal enterprise": all power to the POTUS, or, good grief, I only signed on to rule against Roe v Wade.
This stuff doesn't seem to have blown up in the news yet. Or has it and it's not reaching DW and France 24?
From search:
(The links may not work if they are truncated but you guys can figure it out.)
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Belz...
Fiend God
He turned it over to his boss, which is the opposite of being disloyal.
Andy_Ross
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What was he supposed to do with it?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Leak it to the press.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
Speaking for myself, there were a couple of things he could have done:
1) Been more aggressive in his prosecutions and investigations. Yes, during his investigation, Mueller had a lot of indictments handed down. But there was more he could have done. Go after more people in Trump's inner circle. (Supposedly Kushner and Trump Jr. were 'saved' because it was determined they were too incompetent to conspire. But, there's evidence that they were guilty of things like perjury. So go after them for that (and whatever else they might be found in your investigations.) Push harder for an interview with Trump. (I know he wouldn't have cooperated, but it would have been more obvious that Trump was being deceptive.) And I'm sure there was a lot more that could have been uncovered and more people charged: For example, Butina was only a footnote in the investigation, whereas it could have uncovered a whole can of worms with regards to Russian interference, the NRA and the GOP.
Instead, by stopping when he did, Mueller passed responsibility for a lot of the remaining investigations and prosecutions on to Barr and the Trump administration.
2) Been more assertive in defending his work and rebuking critics. When Trump claimed the report 'Totally exonerated' him, what we got from Mueller was a lot of silence, and eventually a 'neither condemns nor exonerates' statement. Every time Trump used the word 'exonerate' Mueller should have been right there to say "Trump is lying. The report doesn't exonerate him." And state (in plain words) that Trump did not cooperate with the investigation. And he could have stated that Barr's initial letter explaining the report to congress was bunk.
I remember seeing a news clip with Mueller addressing congress. One of the Democrats asked Mueller to read a section of the report. (That's a common thing to happen with these interviews... you would have had a clip of Mueller personally giving a section of the report with his own voice.) Instead Mueller said no, and had the Democrat read the section of the report instead. (The information still made it into the official records, but it wasn't as effective in drawing attention to the issue compared to Mueller reading it himself.)
By failing to rebuke Trump and point out when Trump and his allies were lying, he let them control the dialog.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I seem to recall a whole narrative coming up around Manafort's(?) indictment on charges having nothing to do with the Russian Collusion question, as being part of a deal whereby Manafort was giving up the goods on the Russian Collusion in exchange for the lesser charges. We needed to wait until the report was published, to see the full extent of Mueller's strategy.
Now the report has been published. It turns out those indictments for unrelated crimes and process crimes were actually the high water mark for Mueller's investigation.
Now the report has been published. It turns out those indictments for unrelated crimes and process crimes were actually the high water mark for Mueller's investigation.
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