The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[Stacyhs]

He was photographed by OGGI lying on the beach next to a mafia gangster.

I don't suppose you'd like to actually provide a link to this alleged picture? I've googled 'Sollecito Repubblica Dominicana OGGI' and an article came up. But what is lacking is any pictures of him lying on a beach with a mafia gangster. Or any mention of a 'mafia gangster'. In fact, the only reference I can find to Raffaele to a gangster is on TJMK where they try (unsuccessfully) to tie Raff's family to Rocco Sollecito. We all know how THAT turned out, don't we?

Unless you can provide said photo with a reference to a gangster, your claim will go on the ever growing Mt. I Pulled This Outta My Ass.

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh dear. Why do surgeons before surgery scrub up to their elbows ultra-ultra- throughly and often with a scrubbing brush or harsh sponge before an operation?

That's right: germs and viruses can hide within the deep crevices of one's skin or nails.

Now imagine a kitchen knife covered with small scratches.

Or try brushing your teeth thoroughly and then adding a disclosure solution.

Suddenly all those minute specks of food, bacteria, grease, rye flour are highlighted because despite your scrubbing, it wasn't deep enough to reach the hidden striations.

Nice try! But tell me, do surgeons scrub up to their elbows with BLEACH? Do we rinse our mouths with BLEACH?
Why do hospitals and labs disinfect with BLEACH, Vix, and not a dental disclosure solution? Can you guess why? Think really hard and the answer may come to you. But probably not.

Pathetic.

 

[Stacyhs]

We can see how dishonourable this pair are, for in the Netflix film, they switch to claiming Stefanoni's laboratories were contaminated.

And this coming from someone who just said:

Seen hanging out with Italian mobsters, who flock to DR because there is no extradition treaty.

They are referring to the [collection stage at the cottage. I suspect you or some PIP added the last clause as C&V definitely concurred under oath no contamination occurred in Stefanoni's laboratory.

He was photographed by OGGI lying on the beach next to a mafia gangster.

Oh dear. Why do surgeons before surgery scrub up to their elbows ultra-ultra- throughly and often with a scrubbing brush or harsh sponge before an operation?

'EVEN IF' here translates from the Italian as 'EVEN THOUGH'.

Someone is dishonorable, but it isn't RS or AK.

 

[AnimalFriendly]

It's such a shame he refused to go in the witness box and be cross-examined.

No, what is a real shame is that poor, poor Rudy didn't testify for the prosecution during Hellman (at least!) about what actually took place in the cottage on 11/1/07. You know, Rudy? That guy who admits to being there in the cottage when Kercher was murdered? If he acted in concert with the other 2, now what could have kept him from telling the court what "really" happened that night?

 

[Stacyhs]

No, what is a real shame is that poor, poor Rudy didn't testify for the prosecution during Hellman (at least!) about what actually took place in the cottage on 11/1/07. You know, Rudy? That guy who admits to being there in the cottage when Kercher was murdered? If he acted in concert with the other 2, now what could have kept him from telling the court what "really" happened that night?

But, but....he says Raff was holding a stiletto in his left hand and was wearing a Napapijri jacket and a white cap with a red stripe! ALL of which turned out to describe Raff EXACTLY! You just haven't learned to accept that Guede is an honorable guy who never, ever lies and would never play the race card to dupe gullible people.

 

[Planigale]

It's a shame the defence do not agree with you. Even Conti and Vecchiotti under oath concurred no contamination could have taken place in Stefanoni's laboratory. The defence forensic witnesses who watched the testing did not raise any objections, either.
Maybe they should have called you as a witness instead.

I know you think this is a killer point; you have made it before. But as has been pointed out to you previously and you have failed to recall this is not how the Italian judicial system works.

The observers to testing are observers. They cannot object, correct or carry out testing themselves. They did not object when the testing was carried out because they are not allowed to.

The Italian legal system specifies that the defence can only subsequently raise questions about the methodology of testing in court if they observed the testing. The objections have to be raised later in court. To raise those questions the testing has to be observed. What the observers cannot do is to interfere in any way with the testing process including 'objecting' during the process.

 

[Planigale]

Nice try! But tell me, do surgeons scrub up to their elbows with BLEACH? Do we rinse our mouths with BLEACH?
Why do hospitals and labs disinfect with BLEACH, Vix, and not a dental disclosure solution? Can you guess why? Think really hard and the answer may come to you. But probably not.

Pathetic.

At least the surgeons change gloves between patients!

The absolute example of bad practice was picking up the bra hook with dirty gloves, handing it around, looking at it, then putting it back down on the ground to photograph it 'in situ'. Photography should be done before an object is moved to document its position not after it has been repositioned.

 

[RoseMontague]

I know you think this is a killer point; you have made it before. But as has been pointed out to you previously and you have failed to recall this is not how the Italian judicial system works.

The observers to testing are observers. They cannot object, correct or carry out testing themselves. They did not object when the testing was carried out because they are not allowed to.

The Italian legal system specifies that the defence can only subsequently raise questions about the methodology of testing in court if they observed the testing. The objections have to be raised later in court. To raise those questions the testing has to be observed. What the observers cannot do is to interfere in any way with the testing process including 'objecting' during the process.

Yes, this. What they can do and did in this case is file a report with the court. Potenza indicated Stefanoni's results on the knife were scientifically worthless.

 

[Vixen]

I know you think this is a killer point; you have made it before. But as has been pointed out to you previously and you have failed to recall this is not how the Italian judicial system works.

The observers to testing are observers. They cannot object, correct or carry out testing themselves. They did not object when the testing was carried out because they are not allowed to.

The Italian legal system specifies that the defence can only subsequently raise questions about the methodology of testing in court if they observed the testing. The objections have to be raised later in court. To raise those questions the testing has to be observed. What the observers cannot do is to interfere in any way with the testing process including 'objecting' during the process.

Absolute rubbish! Of course they are allowed to. That is the whole point of being there. You can challenge any procedure during a trial. The forensic expert, for example, Dr Torres, who was there for Raff, would just simply have complained to Raff's lawyers who are then instructed to put in an application to the court for a hearing on the challenged point.

There were literally dozens of such applications and hearings during the lengthy trial on all sorts of technical and legal issues.

Failing that, Torres could have been subpoened to give evidence of all his complaints.

There were ZERO objections to Stefanoni's methods.

 

[Vixen]

I don't suppose you'd like to actually provide a link to this alleged picture? I've googled 'Sollecito Repubblica Dominicana OGGI' and an article came up. But what is lacking is any pictures of him lying on a beach with a mafia gangster. Or any mention of a 'mafia gangster'. In fact, the only reference I can find to Raffaele to a gangster is on TJMK where they try (unsuccessfully) to tie Raff's family to Rocco Sollecito. We all know how THAT turned out, don't we?

Unless you can provide said photo with a reference to a gangster, your claim will go on the ever growing Mt. I Pulled This Outta My Ass.

You have had the photo provided to you before (cf the large tattoo on Raff's shoulder).

 

[Bill Williams]

There were ZERO objections to Stefanoni's methods.

I'm baffled as to why this one point becomes your gold-standard in defending Stefanoni's obviously sub-standard work. And I mean "sub-standard" quite literally, as the sole forensic expert who testified in support of her work, Prof Novelli, conceded that she'd not followed international standards. Hence, even he admitted that she'd not lived up to prevailing standards.

But beyond this, when every other forensic DNA expert trashes Stefanoni's work, you call them criminals, paid off by the Mafia, or shills for the defence. You have an explanation for everything.

You lie by saying that there's no such thing as tertiary transfer, you lie by wrongly claiming that Conti-Vecchiotti testified under oath that Stefanoni had had no contaminated in her lab.

It's almost as if you had a confirmation bias, and were trying to head off at the pass any genuine criticism of Stefanoni's work.

 

[Bill Williams]

You have had the photo provided to you before (cf the large tattoo on Raff's shoulder).

There you go again. Claiming that some phantom photo had once been posted.... yet even that doesn't remotely deal with Stacyhs's point.

You've made bogus claims before of Raffaele with Mafia on the beach in the Dominican Republic. You've never backed up that claim. That's where it sits.

 

[TruthCalls]

It's such a shame he refused to go in the witness box and be cross-examined. Such a helpful upright decent citizen. Even ****** off to the the Dominican Republic during his own appeal. Seen hanging out with Italian mobsters, who flock to DR because there is no extradition treaty.

The reason for the above is obvious: he was scared ********.

Whoa, nice move... jumped to a completely different discussion in an effort to avoid the discussion at hand. You know, you really shouldn't reply to a post unless you're willing to discuss the nature of that post.

So, as you were saying... Raffaele's DNA was one sixth that of Meredith's despite his directly depositing it during a violent attack where he was surely perspiring profusely, increasing the amount of DNA he would leave behind, is because..... ?????

Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Stacyhs]

You have had the photo provided to you before (cf the large tattoo on Raff's shoulder).

You mean this one? The one that does NOT show him 'lying on a beach next to an Italian gangster'? Once again, you make a ridiculous claim that you cannot back up with a shred of evidence. If you could provide evidence of your claim, you would. Stop making things up! You'd think you'd learn, but no...

 

[Stacyhs]

Absolute rubbish! Of course they are allowed to. That is the whole point of being there. You can challenge any procedure during a trial. The forensic expert, for example, Dr Torres, who was there for Raff, would just simply have complained to Raff's lawyers who are then instructed to put in an application to the court for a hearing on the challenged point.

There were literally dozens of such applications and hearings during the lengthy trial on all sorts of technical and legal issues.

Failing that, Torres could have been subpoened to give evidence of all his complaints.

There were ZERO objections to Stefanoni's methods.

The defense witnesses are there to observe that the proper steps are taken during the analyses. They did not complain about these. However, observers would not, and could not, detect if contamination was already present in the samples or if contamination occurred during analyses.
Nor do we know whether the observers could actually see the qubit fluorometer numbers Stefanoni was getting and working with.

Carlo Torre (not Torres) was Knox's defense expert, not Sollecito's. He objected in court to Stefanoni's excuse for not taking pictures of the alleged knife striation where she found the DNA.

I took a photo one can see other than scratches it is just the instrument without any manipulation, an operation absolutely repeatable permits me to take a photograph zooming in on any scratches and eventually also revealing on the inside of those scratches there is something organic, another voice is the basis of the identification of bullets [proietti - perhaps a typo “proiettili” is bullets “proietti is meaningless], the micro-streaks are made in this way using the stereo microscope.

Not to cause problems but just to clarify that Doctor Stefanoni could have easily looked at those micro scratches or macro scratches in order to document them and that it doesn’t correspond with the truth the fact that to
see it she would have had to manipulate the knife.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Professor-Torre-Testimony.pdf

 

[Vixen]

No, what is a real shame is that poor, poor Rudy didn't testify for the prosecution during Hellman (at least!) about what actually took place in the cottage on 11/1/07. You know, Rudy? That guy who admits to being there in the cottage when Kercher was murdered? If he acted in concert with the other 2, now what could have kept him from telling the court what "really" happened that night?

A defendant has the right not to testify against themselves. Knox & Sollecito chose this option, why shouldn't Guede?

 

[Vixen]

Whoa, nice move... jumped to a completely different discussion in an effort to avoid the discussion at hand. You know, you really shouldn't reply to a post unless you're willing to discuss the nature of that post.

So, as you were saying... Raffaele's DNA was one sixth that of Meredith's despite his directly depositing it during a violent attack where he was surely perspiring profusely, increasing the amount of DNA he would leave behind, is because..... ?????

Yeah, didn't think so.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Vixen]

You mean this one? The one that does NOT show him 'lying on a beach next to an Italian gangster'? Once again, you make a ridiculous claim that you cannot back up with a shred of evidence. If you could provide evidence of your claim, you would. Stop making things up! You'd think you'd learn, but no...


[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d26119394313.jpg[/qimg]

I said, the one of him lying on the beach chatting to a known identified mobster.

Since when did 'lying' mean 'standing up'?

 

[Stacyhs]

He was photographed by OGGI lying on the beach next to a mafia gangster.

You have had the photo provided to you before (cf the large tattoo on Raff's shoulder).

I said, the one of him lying on the beach chatting to a known identified mobster.

Since when did 'lying' mean 'standing up'?

Since when does said "lying on the beach" photo become the one "provided to (me) before" and showing the "large tattoo" which does not showing him "lying on the beach"?

As I said earlier, there is no such photo of RS lying on the beach next to a mafia gangster. If there were, you'd provide it. Nor do you have any evidence whatsoever that RS was "Seen hanging out with Italian mobsters, who flock to DR because there is no extradition treaty." Stop lying.

 

[Bill Williams]

Absolute nonsense.

Vixen, it seems that you're correct. It was a lot less than that.... all the other identifiable profiles taken together were 1/10th of the victim's profile.

From the Massei report:

With regard to Exhibit 165B, on the basis of the height of the peaks, from the data
supplied and derivable from the extraction quantities and concentration, and taking
into account that this concerned a mixed sample, in which the ratio of the victim’s DNA to that of the minor contributors was about 10 to 1, it followed, as a
consequence, that the quantity from the minor contributors was less than 200
picograms, and it was thus a "low copy number" with its attendant uncertainties and
necessity of repetition.

And note. There was no repetition!