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Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

Cainkane1 said:
Is a prison considered a concentration camp? You break the law like the illegals are doing and you get put in a detention area.

You break the law and you will be surrounded by walls. It's that simple. Stay out of America and avoid these camps.
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Seeking asylum within the United States is not a crime. It's a right.

As others have said, stop lying.
 
Jungle Jim said:
From the article: "Fabian is a holdover from the Obama administration. It is not clear exactly when she joined the Department of Justice, but she was listed in a 2015 case as being senior litigation counsel in the civil division of the Office of Immigration Litigation in Attorney General Eric Holder’s DOJ."
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Even then its just "look, a career bureaucrat is acting like a career bureaucrat."

The only point of the comment is to pull the "look, Obama!" lever.
 
Jungle Jim said:
From the article: "Fabian is a holdover from the Obama administration. It is not clear exactly when she joined the Department of Justice, but she was listed in a 2015 case as being senior litigation counsel in the civil division of the Office of Immigration Litigation in Attorney General Eric Holder’s DOJ."
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Reading fundamentals. Holdover =! Appointed by Obama.

She might be, but that statement doesn't make you right.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I still don't, get even if we just hit the "Change Reality" button and pretend all the whataboutism is actually true, what differences it makes.

We just aren't allowed to oppose something if we didn't oppose it before? Consistency is more important than doing good? Dead children are an acceptable sacrifice to lay at the alter of "Well the other side got to do it....?"
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Why are you pulling me over when there are rapists and murderers roaming the street?

... but masquerading as legitimate domestic policy
 
theprestige said:
Stop special pleading. You carry on like Donald Trump is some kind of special evil. But when we actually compare what he's done to his predecessors and contemporaries, it's not really all that special.
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You guys keep saying this line, and it's pathetic. I thought Trump was supposed to be the best! He was supposed to be better than anyone else, he said so!

Now you guys, as has been pointed out, are just bellowing "He's not really THAT evil. Like...he's totally not as evil as people 50-60 years ago, and some places in Europe. Deal with it!"

You'll have to excuse everyone that isn't a right winger from looking at that argument and thinking, "Well that's some of the most horrible **** I've ever read. Justifying evil behavior with other people's evil behavior."

I guess we just grade that **** on a sliding scale right? Compare everyone to the worst that the world has to offer and all of a sudden the dumbass piece of **** you voted for looks like a golden turd!
 
theprestige said:
Stop special pleading. You carry on like Donald Trump is some kind of special evil. But when we actually compare what he's done to his predecessors and contemporaries, it's not really all that special.
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I did no such thing.

My point is Trump being some "special kind of evil" is not a prerequisite to complain about something he's doing.

This whole "You didn't complain about X before, therefore you can't complain about it ever!" is what people are having the issue with.

And that is a whole separate thing from the discussion as to how comparable Trump is from other administrations/countries.

Even if Barack Hussein Evil Librul Obama the Secret Kenyan Muslim Sleeper Agent had woke up every morning and beat a refugee child to death with a stack of Bibles wrapped in a burning American flag on the steps of the White House every single day of his Presidency it would not completely remove my ability to criticize Trump right now at this moment, in this discussion.

"bUr uR bEIng a hYPOcriTE!" is not the ultimate, you win every argument know and forever card you're playing it as.

I'm not sacrificing "good" at the alter of "But the other side got to get away with it!"
 
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theprestige said:
Stop special pleading. You carry on like Donald Trump is some kind of special evil. But when we actually compare what he's done to his predecessors and contemporaries, it's not really all that special.
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Let's try something different.

The Trump administration has a practice of housing undocumented children in filthy, inhumane conditions (either through malice or negligence). This is bad, and the practice should change.

Agree or disagree?
 
I Am The Scum said:
Seeking asylum within the United States is not a crime. It's a right.

As others have said, stop lying.
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You do realise that the Refugee convention was never meant for anyone to go "Gib Asylum! I will cry on livestream and brand you Nazis if you don't do so! BTW, AmeriKKKA is stolen land so no one is illegal!". there is no state of war in Mexico or Honduras, and AFAIK High Crime Rates and extreme poverty don't count. I have yet to think of a country that has stuck by a "Let them all in" policy, because it doesn't last long when tested.
 
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Cainkane1 said:
Well, are you saying that there are no illegals who are child traffickers? Seeing a toddler holding the hand of an unrelated adult is a good bit of evidence that there are indeed child traffickers who are crossing our borders with the intent of selling these kids to perverts.
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I know who cares about kids being killed by gangs they deserve it for being born in the garbage countries, like when Anne Frank thought she could come here to flee her own country and we proudly said no we don't care and deal with the problems yourself. It made her a great writer after all.

Requiring proof of a negative is pretty great, kill them all unless we can prove none of them are dangerous. That will work great.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
You do realise that the Refugee convention was never meant for anyone to go "Gib Asylum! I will cry on livestream and brand you Nazis if you don't do so! BTW, AmeriKKKA is stolen land so no one is illegal!". there is no state of war in Mexico or Honduras, and AFAIK High Crime Rates and extreme poverty don't count. I have yet to think of a country that has stuck by a "Let them all in" policy, because it doesn't last long when tested.
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Cain was wrong. Are you going to acknowledge his error, or make excuses?

EDIT:

Actually, I'll rephrase. Let's try something milder.

We have to lock them up because they have committed a crime - is a bad argument. Agree or disagree?
 
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I Am The Scum said:
Seeking asylum within the United States is not a crime. It's a right.

As others have said, stop lying.
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But remember conservative reasoning 101. When it is a republican president violating US law it doesn't matter if it is asylum law or ordering torture, when a republican president does it, its legal.
 
I Am The Scum said:
Cain was wrong. Are you going to acknowledge his error, or make excuses?

EDIT:

Actually, I'll rephrase. Let's try something milder.

We have to lock them up because they have committed a crime - is a bad argument. Agree or disagree?
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It's what practically every developed world country does. Detention then deportation is the norm. The main problem here is the scale tends to cause a lot of problems.
 
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NWO Sentryman said:
But I thought America should be compared to its peers, according to this forum? Or is America somehow magically exceptional?
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I don't know. I don't speak for the forum. I have no interest in debating you as you don't operate on the same plane of existence I do. I'm in reality, your arguments pretty well cement that you are not.

Thanks.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
It's what practically every developed world country does. Detention then deportation is the norm. The main problem here is the scale tends to cause a lot of problems.
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We have to lock them up because they have committed a crime - is a bad argument. Agree or disagree?
 
I would prefer to limit my discussion in the thread to the evils of the concentration camps rather than potentially distract from this key issue by also discussing if the Trump administration can be uniquely blamed for implementing the current system, rather than it being a simple continuation of prior US policies. Certainly a number of posters have sought to defend Trump by claiming the later. However my first thought, taking this part of the discussion to the general Trump thread, simply does not seem appropriate on further consideration. So having promised to discuss my views, my first salvo is citing a fact check article that documents how claims that Obama had a comparable family separation policy are false:
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...-trump-again-falsely-says-obama-had-family-s/

I hope to come back to this when I have more time.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Even then its just "look, a career bureaucrat is acting like a career bureaucrat."

The only point of the comment is to pull the "look, Obama!" lever.
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No, the point of the comment was to correct uke2se who said Sarah Fabian was not an "Obama admin lawyer" when in fact she was. Full stop.
 
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