Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[McHrozni]

Not wanting to dissolve the EU or roll it back considerably != wanting further integration

Actually it kinda is. EU right now is in a manifestly unstable state, it has to move somewhere on fiscal union and immigration, first and foremost. There are two ways this can be achieved, either further integration or rolling it back. Not wanting to roll it back leaves you with exactly one option.

Plus most of ALDE, EPP and S&D explicitly supports further integration, just not in what order, which areas to prioritize or which mechanisms to use.

Wanting further integration != wanting a European superstate

Yes, yes. And wanting the common market was not wanting a common currency. Having a union of steel and coal producing countries was not wanting a common market either.

As time passes by it will become clear further integration is the proper way to go and it will happen, even if the current crop of politicians doesn't see it like that yet. They want further integration and that makes an eventual superstate inevitable.

I see it as a good thing.

McHrozni

 

[ponderingturtle]

All the former Yugoslavian ones, so I make that 5(?).
(Haven't looked at a map to count them)

Except that Yugoslavia was never a democracy but a dictatorship.

 

[Tolls]

However Yugoslavia was one party socialist dictatorship, not a democracy.

Except that Yugoslavia was never a democracy but a dictatorship.

I misinterpreted "(h)ow many of those descended from democratic states and aren't a result of a Russian invasion?"

I read the "and" as an "or"...

 

[Tolls]

Ooh, got one.
Czechoslovakia!


They were a fairly functional democracy for 3 years...

So that would be 2!

 

[McHrozni]

I misinterpreted "(h)ow many of those descended from democratic states and aren't a result of a Russian invasion?"

I read the "and" as an "or"...

Ah, ok

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Ooh, got one.
Czechoslovakia!


They were a fairly functional democracy for 3 years...

So that would be 2!

Two maybes, yeah. It depends on a definition of a functional democracy a bit (WP: Members of Czechoslovakia's parliament, divided along national lines, barely cooperated enough to pass the law officially separating the two nations in late 1992) and whether or not you consider the context behind that divorce. Slovaks had been a tad of a second class citizens for decades in the dictatorial Czechoslovakia (and prior), which contributed to their wishes of an independent state when they got democracy.

So yeah, the number in fact may not be zero. Indeed, it could be as high as two.

McHrozni

 

[Andy_Ross]

Sir Edward Leigh MP Tweets


I am disappointed by the lack of radical ideas coming out of this leadership race. Here’s my programme for the new government:

There are only two choices given the EU won’t change the deal and there’s no chance of Parliament passing it. One is cancel Brexit: an intolerable denial of democracy. The other is leave without a deal on WTO terms on 31 October. But MPs, assisted by the Speaker, will block this.

Solution: End this failed session immediately within hours of a new government and prorogue Parliament. Leave the EU on 31 October. If we don’t, we are betraying our supporters and ensuring a total wipe-out of the Conservative party.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I like how he thinks stopping Brexit is an "intolerable denial of democracy"

But that "within hours of a new government" scrapping Parliament is the democratic thing to do.

 

[3point14]

Sir Edward Leigh MP Tweets


I am disappointed by the lack of radical ideas coming out of this leadership race. Here’s my programme for the new government:

There are only two choices given the EU won’t change the deal and there’s no chance of Parliament passing it. One is cancel Brexit: an intolerable denial of democracy. The other is leave without a deal on WTO terms on 31 October. But MPs, assisted by the Speaker, will block this.

Solution: End this failed session immediately within hours of a new government and prorogue Parliament. Leave the EU on 31 October. If we don’t, we are betraying our supporters and ensuring a total wipe-out of the Conservative party.

Well, I suspect he thinks the 74 grand a year he receives from being Non-Executive Director of Europe Arab Bank is safe from the consequences of his chosen course of action.

(https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2016/03/how-much-lincolnshire-mps-earned-through-second-jobs/)

 

[Information Analyst]

Sir Edward Leigh MP Tweets


I am disappointed by the lack of radical ideas coming out of this leadership race. Here’s my programme for the new government:

There are only two choices given the EU won’t change the deal and there’s no chance of Parliament passing it. One is cancel Brexit: an intolerable denial of democracy. The other is leave without a deal on WTO terms on 31 October. But MPs, assisted by the Speaker, will block this.

Solution: End this failed session immediately within hours of a new government and prorogue Parliament. Leave the EU on 31 October. If we don’t, we are betraying our supporters and ensuring a total wipe-out of the Conservative party.

The only thing he really cares about.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Now we know where the 350 million a week for the NHS will go. To america!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/04/trump-says-he-turned-down-corbyn-request-to-meet?fbclid=IwAR05VhrNZcM1rk0IF5B23ccoX4gG4Tfm3XJ5HJTaGx7rheQPYYy4eodMguQ


"Donald Trump has declared he wants the NHS to be on the table in any US-UK trade deal and refused to meet the “negative” Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to oppose US corporations taking over the health service with every breath in his body.

On the second day of his state visit, during which he has been hosted by the Queen and Theresa May, the US president set out his ambitions for a “phenomenal” post-Brexit trade deal with the UK"

 

[The Don]

More "Brexit dividend" for Wales ?

Ford Europe has called union leaders from Bridgend's engine plant to its Essex headquarters on Thursday.

There are renewed concerns for the factory's future - it opened nearly 40 years ago and employs 1,700 workers.

It comes just months after Ford said it was cutting its Welsh workforce by 1,000, with 370 going in a first phase.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48533790

Part of the global automotive sector issues but Brexit isn't helping..

 

[Vixen]

Now we know where the 350 million a week for the NHS will go. To america!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/04/trump-says-he-turned-down-corbyn-request-to-meet?fbclid=IwAR05VhrNZcM1rk0IF5B23ccoX4gG4Tfm3XJ5HJTaGx7rheQPYYy4eodMguQ


"Donald Trump has declared he wants the NHS to be on the table in any US-UK trade deal and refused to meet the “negative” Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to oppose US corporations taking over the health service with every breath in his body.

On the second day of his state visit, during which he has been hosted by the Queen and Theresa May, the US president set out his ambitions for a “phenomenal” post-Brexit trade deal with the UK"

He means phenomenal for the USA. You could almost see him rubbing his tiny hands with glee at the thought of a no-deal Brexit and the UK begging the USA for trade.

 

[ponderingturtle]

He means phenomenal for the USA. You could almost see him rubbing his tiny hands with glee at the thought of a no-deal Brexit and the UK begging the USA for trade.

Exactly getting you all to finally pay a fair price for medication.

 

[Vixen]

Exactly getting you all to finally pay a fair price for medication.

We get it free, apart form minor prescription charges. In Finland medical care for even the most serious conditions are capped at circa €700 pa regardless of wealth. Choke on that, Yanks!

 

[jimbob]

We get it free, apart form minor prescription charges. In Finland medical care for even the most serious conditions are capped at circa €700 pa regardless of wealth. Choke on that, Yanks!

Check out my signature - The NHS costs the British Government a lower percentage of GDP than public healthcare costs the US Government.

 

[Lothian]

Trump leaves the UK goes to Ireland and says he has spoken to people in the UK who are keen on Brexit and he wishes Ireland good luck with their wall and border. Fair play he understands Brexit better than the majority of the Tory leadership candidates.

 

[Ian Osborne]

2016: ‘An extra £350m a week for the NHS.’

2019: The NHS is ‘on the table’ for trade agreements.

And yet there are still people who voted Leave who deny they were conned.

 

[Klimax]

Two maybes, yeah. It depends on a definition of a functional democracy a bit (WP: Members of Czechoslovakia's parliament, divided along national lines, barely cooperated enough to pass the law officially separating the two nations in late 1992) and whether or not you consider the context behind that divorce. Slovaks had been a tad of a second class citizens for decades in the dictatorial Czechoslovakia (and prior), which contributed to their wishes of an independent state when they got democracy.

So yeah, the number in fact may not be zero. Indeed, it could be as high as two.

McHrozni

Bolded sentence is simply wrong on all levels. That is just a lie perpetuated by ultranationalists like Mečiár (so he could get more power for corruption) or by certain Tiso.

Truth is that if it weren't for us, Slovaks would be speaking Hungarian and be part of Hungary and their "great" language would ben nothing more than footnote because it was barely surviving in few villages in mountains.

Their language was not only official language of Czechoslovakia, but radio and later television had number of requirements with regard to representation of Slovak language in their broadcast. And it was thought even in Czech schools.

Furthermore we sent loads of money to upgrade everything and certain necessary professions like teachers were often sent to Slovakia.

Thanks for not perpetuating that Mečiar's lie anymore.

 

[The Don]

I like how he thinks stopping Brexit is an "intolerable denial of democracy"

But that "within hours of a new government" scrapping Parliament is the democratic thing to do.

Gotta fix that "democratic deficit" somehow