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For the record, I tend towards your side of the argument for changing rooms and showers, but I think restrooms are areas where accommodation is more practical.
Why do you not care about the safety of trans people in such changing rooms? They are more likely to be victims by far than predators but you are happy to hand them to the predators.
It is about feeling safe and keeping the other out, the other just changes with the time.
No, they don't. And I didn't even come close to saying that. My post was about protecting women within the spaces where they are accustomed to feeling safe. Because men are, were, and possibly always will be a threat to them in a way that women will never be a threat to men.
Why do you not care about the safety of trans people in such changing rooms? They are more likely to be victims by far than predators but you are happy to hand them to the predators.
It is about feeling safe and keeping the other out, the other just changes with the time.
Because there are two sides to the issue. Whichever side you choose, someone is left vulnerable to "predators." It's a complicated thing when making one group feel safe makes the other feel unsafe.
There is no one clear answer that is correct in all cases, and there won't be one as long as people feel vulnerable when naked with strangers of the opposite sex.
Interesting bathroom story here from a trans man. Note how he was treated when he tried to use the restroom for his biological sex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1xAcJ2qi1o
Interesting bathroom story here from a trans man. Note how he was treated when he tried to use the restroom for his biological sex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1xAcJ2qi1o
He was prodded by both men and women that he should be in the men's room line when he was standing in line for the women's room to the point where he switched to the men's room.
Normally, he would use the men's room, but in this case, the men's room had three stalls, two of them completely open and the third only had a curtain that hung down above waist level if sitting down, so he wasn't comfortable using it.
He ended up finding another transman awkwardly waiting to use the women's room and they kind of stood guard over each other on the men's side.
Neither men nor women liked the idea that he was using the women's room. That said, he did not explain that he was biologically female.
I hate to dump videos, but here are a couple things I think are relevant, just to get different perspectives.
These two are from Blaire White. If you don't know, she's a conservative transwoman, who is controversial. She thinks bathrooms yes, but if you have male genitals you shouldn't be in a women's locker room (or vice versa). She is also against children transitioning. They are short (5 minutes).
This is Harrison Browne (FTM Hockey Player) talking about his first time in the men's locker room. Basically he was nervous about it, but it turned out not to be a big deal, though he did try to hide his scars and genitals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNYBqrhLBqo
He was prodded by both men and women that he should be in the men's room line when he was standing in line for the women's room to the point where he switched to the men's room.
Normally, he would use the men's room, but in this case, the men's room had three stalls, two of them completely open and the third only had a curtain that hung down above waist level if sitting down, so he wasn't comfortable using it.
He ended up finding another transman awkwardly waiting to use the women's room and they kind of stood guard over each other on the men's side.
Neither men nor women liked the idea that he was using the women's room. That said, he did not explain that he was biologically female.
For instance, a smaller than average sized male in a male restroom would be surrounded by 'potential male rapists' that are on average bigger than them?
ooh, shouldn't be allowed, according to some peoples logic.
But he was trying to do what you advocate for: using the bathroom that matched his genitals. And he was met with harassment and "you shouldn't be here."
An ideal situation for him...what would have been "affirmation" I guess...would have been to be ignored, or rather not noticed. He wanted to go in, do his business, and leave without attracting any more attention than anyone else. Normally, he can do this. At this particular location, it was not possible. So what's he to do?
Try to consider a point of view other than your own. Not to convince you you're wrong, but to understand the other side.
In terms of murders per capita of the demographic group in question. Men have the highest rate, women next, and transwomen (not sure if it included transmen) the lowest rate. Overwhelmingly the murderers are men. However the per capita rate of violent offending among transwomen is similar to the rate among men and well above the rate among women,
The Office for National Statistics (ONS) confirmed to FactCheck that “it is not possible to identify transgender victims in current homicide statistics” and “the sex of a homicide victim is determined by the police force that records the crime”.
They go on to use some kind of unofficial figures, but the whole thing seems rather dubious since it is not possible to identify transgender victims in the official homicide statistics.
What we may be seeing here is that something that has not been measured by the official statistics may be being undercounted.
I think that Channel 4 article is pretty fair. One point it does bring out is that if you exclude the situation in Latin America (particularly Brazil), where there is a particular problem of transwomen sex workers being murdered, there is no evidence of any massive epidemic of trans murders, and indeed it appears that they are at less risk of murder than the rest of the general population.
The alarmist rhetoric we hear from the trans lobby about the horrific murder rates of trans people, the enormous dangers they face going about their daily lives, are entirely predicated on the situation in Latin America. Take that out of the equation and the picture is entirely different.
Another concern is that accurate statistics are not being kept. The mantra that people should be recorded as their personal identity and not by their biological sex is absolutely pernicious and a huge barrier to getting accurate statistics. (Under a different heading someone pointed out the other day that in one year three transwomen - that is, men - committed sexual assaults. These were recorded as crimes committed by women, thus more than doubling the rate of sexual assaults committed by women in one fell swoop.)
So in this climate where accurate information recording is condemned as transphobic it will always be possible to rubbish the statistics and claim any damn thing you like. But it is going to take one hell of a leap to go from "as far as we can tell, transgender people are significantly under-represented among murder victims", to a claim that transgender people face a horrifically high murder risk.
No, they don't. And I didn't even come close to saying that. My post was about protecting women within the spaces where they are accustomed to feeling safe. Because men are, were, and possibly always will be a threat to them in a way that women will never be a threat to men.
Because there are two sides to the issue. Whichever side you choose, someone is left vulnerable to "predators." It's a complicated thing when making one group feel safe makes the other feel unsafe.
There is no one clear answer that is correct in all cases, and there won't be one as long as people feel vulnerable when naked with strangers of the opposite sex.
A couple of pages back I posted a long screed about the transing of children and young people, which generated pretty much no comment. It is however a very serious issue amounting to an epidemic of child abuse, and children are being sterilised, deprived of any adult sexual functioning and put at high risk of serious diseases in later life in horrifying numbers.
This article is a report of an evidence-taking session in the House of Lords in Westminster on this subject. It raises some extremely important points not only about consent, but about the relentless pressure coming from transgender organisations to fast-track confused children into medical and surgical transitioning without any counselling or attempt to explore whether this is really the best thing for them long-term.
This is scary stuff. Last month the Swedish government woke up to the situation very suddenly as a result of the documentary I linked to earlier.
In Sweden all medical and surgical treatment aimed at changing the sex of a person are now banned before the age of (I think) 25.
There is no doubt that the pressure to alter healthy children's bodies with hormones and surgery before they have reached any normal age of consent is coming from adult trans activists, most of whom transitioned as adults and most of whom still retain their original genitalia. It seems to be part of their obsession for "validation" - if there are all these children who are trans, even before puberty, then obviously it's a real thing and not a sexual kink. Then of course the children must be affirmed, and since for the adults "passing" is such an important thing they promote the pre-puberty transing of little boys especially, so that they can achieve a feminine appearance in adulthood. Do they even realise that these children will have no adult sexual functioning either as males or females?
This is where society has let itself be led, by following the entirely false mantra that trans people are wholly benign, and are the most oppressed and marginalised group on the planet. From this we're told that only trans people should be consulted on anything trans related and any other interest group which expresses concerns must be outlawed as bigoted and transphobic and punished for this by removal of its privileges.
I hope more people are now starting to wake up to this, but it has become so all-pervasive it's going to take some time and meanwhile more and more children and being sterilised, mutilated and prescribed dangerously harmful drugs.
But he was trying to do what you advocate for: using the bathroom that matched his genitals. And he was met with harassment and "you shouldn't be here."
An ideal situation for him...what would have been "affirmation" I guess...would have been to be ignored, or rather not noticed. He wanted to go in, do his business, and leave without attracting any more attention than anyone else. Normally, he can do this. At this particular location, it was not possible. So what's he to do?
Try to consider a point of view other than your own. Not to convince you you're wrong, but to understand the other side.
They were humming and hurring over a bog because some bloke spewed in one and felt uncomfortable using the 3. Yes three dude options no one would give a rats about as it is a trans dude and not a trans chick.
Only if you think that trans women are likely sexual predators. I know I know that stereotype is as ingrained as the rampaging rapist black man, but that doesn't make it valid.
1) It is not necessary to view trans women as (more) likely sexual predators in order to wish to prevent anybody self-IDing as female from using female segregated facilities. (Unless "anybody self-IDing as female" is the same as trans woman, then it is, and appropriately so)
2) Allowing anybody self-IDing as female to use female segregated spaces does not protect trans women from sexual predation anyway. Just like it doesn't protect women.
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