Trans Women are not Women

[William Parcher]

Champion powerlifter is stripped of titles because she was 'still a man' when she won the female records

A power lifter who transitioned from a male to a female has been stripped of their world titles after the sport's governing body in the US said the competitor was a man.

Mary Gregory, from Virginia, set world records in the women's squat, bench press, and deadlift, and had earned a 'Masters total world record' for her powerlifting scores across the board last month.

But now, RAW Powerlifting Federation - the same body she thanked after winning - stripped Gregory of her titles, saying that the lifter 'was actually a male' when competing.

On Friday Federation president Paul Bossi said in a statement to media: 'It was revealed that this female lifter was actually a male in the process of becoming a Transgender female...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7023247/Champion-powerlifter-stripped-titles-man-won.html

 

[Ziggurat]

A power lifter who transitioned from a male to a female has been stripped of their world titles after the sport's governing body in the US said the competitor was a man.

She may be a man, but she lifts sumo, so she's still a pussy.

 

[Belz...]

Champion powerlifter is stripped of titles because she was 'still a man' when she won the female records



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7023247/Champion-powerlifter-stripped-titles-man-won.html

How much of a transition are we even talking about, here?

 

[The Atheist]

Really? And it has been this way for a long time? I would google it, but I'm not sure what terms to google, and I'd be afraid that along the way I might trip some pedophile triggers in the browser observers.

Haha! Yeah, having the FBI busting your door down while you try to explain it was "research".

Yes, really, and it's been going on for at least the past 55 years.

I'm sure that the 5 and 6 year olds indeed don't care, but in America, the parents would not allow it.

Just one of the myriad things wrong with America.

I think they would justify forbidding it on the grounds that they are teaching them how to behave as adults. I think you would agree that that is exactly what they were doing, but would say they were teaching the wrong way.

No, on both counts.

I don't think there's anything about teaching kids how to behave as adults, it's just a continuation of little kids who take no notice of gender. I've seen a few daycares and I have yet to find one with doors on bathrooms. Kids don't even notice unless they're told to.

And I certainly don't think it's a wrong way to teach whatever lesson they get from it. The bad lessons are the ones instilled - mostly by parents - that genitalia is any different to toes or kidneys.

In my opinion, as the kids got older, they would gravitate toward "modesty" even without being told by adults that they ought to. However, I have no way of knowing if that is true, or just a hunch, nor would I have any way of proving it either way.

That goes to what I was saying a page ago, kids will certainly develop modesty, but only because of the culture we live in.

If a beardy bloke walks into the women's loo, are you going to quiz him about his genitals? If so, I guess that's fine. Seems awkward, but whatevs.

You'd feel a bit sorry for the 100% biological and psychological female, Harnaam Kaur, if that's where it goes.

Mind you, if you can put up with people telling you to burn in hell for having a beard, I imagine being asked to prove her credentials in a women's toilet is fairly mild.

 

[Rolfe]

Actually, if she's the one I've watched a YouTube video of, she's quite obviously female if you simply screen out the beard. The voice in particular.

 

[p0lka]

Actually, if she's the one I've watched a YouTube video of, she's quite obviously female if you simply screen out the beard. The voice in particular.

Presumably then, you would have no issue with sharing the same facilities with them?

 

[Rolfe]

How much of a transition are we even talking about, here?

He seemed to be doing it as a wind-up, for laughs, but it makes a serious point. The whole self-ID thing means that people have to be taken at their word and no surgery and no hormones are required.

That latter isn't true for elite-level sport, of course, at least at the moment, but the trans lobby is trying to change that too. Rachel McKinnon, who seems to be completely demented, claims that testosterone confers no athletic advantage anyway and he should be allowed to compete as he is, without doing anything to damage his lady body's natural potential. (And if you see a contradiction there, yes the rest of us see it too.) You see, because he has a lady brain, that makes his body female too, so the testicles and the penis and the testosterone should naturally compete in the women's events.

Given the virtual 100% strike rate of authorities in giving in to the demands of the trans lobby to date, I wouldn't die of shock if he gets his way. Schoolboys are already allowed to compete in the girls' events without taking any medication and that might be the case at college level too I'm not sure.

So Mr Power Lifter might just be a wee bit ahead of his time.

 

[Marcus]

Champion powerlifter is stripped of titles because she was 'still a man' when she won the female records



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7023247/Champion-powerlifter-stripped-titles-man-won.html

Good for them. Even if Gregory removed his junk before competing, there would still be a huge advantage from growing up male.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not sure they intend to keep him out indefinitely though, more's the pity. There's way too much ignoring of the fact that going through male puberty (or indeed having taken testosterone at some point in the past) confers huge advantages.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The whole self-ID thing means that people have to be taken at their word and no surgery and no hormones are required.

You keep saying these things, but I don't think they are true as you state them.

I do not believe a GRC currently requires surgery or hormones. It requires having lived as a woman for 2 years and a diagnosis from a medical professional. Self-ID simply means that the medical diagnosis is no longer required to be legally recognised as the other gender.

I am open to being shown otherwise but I would hope you are also open to reconsidering your own statements. There is a lot of nonsense talked about self-ID and the objections to it are often confused with other complaints.

 

[Ziggurat]

You keep saying these things, but I don't think they are true as you state them.

I do not believe a GRC currently requires surgery or hormones. It requires having lived as a woman for 2 years and a diagnosis from a medical professional. Self-ID simply means that the medical diagnosis is no longer required to be legally recognised as the other gender.

I am open to being shown otherwise but I would hope you are also open to reconsidering your own statements. There is a lot of nonsense talked about self-ID and the objections to it are often confused with other complaints.

Let's say someone self-identifies as a different gender than their biological sex, and goes to a professional (doctor, psychologist, whatever). Are there any professionals who are going to say, no, your self-identification is wrong? On what grounds would they make such a diagnosis?

Because it seems to me like that wouldn't happen, that there aren't really accepted grounds for a medical professional to reject a self-ID. It seems to me like getting a medical diagnosis is a mere formality, and even if one professional did refuse to confirm a self-diagnosis, you could find another who wouldn't.

 

[d4m10n]

I'm currently listening to a podcast about the debate within feminism over this issue.

Good intro to the topic, but treating gender as a metaphysical problem doesn't really help solve anything. The host / moderator doesn't take very seriously the notion that biological sex (what some of the interviewees call assignment) may well be an important factor in discrimination.

ETA: Rolfe won't at all enjoy the conclusion.

 

[8enotto]

Right now there seems to be a live and let live attitude over the entire subject.

Pushing for full rights in whatever one declares isn't going to hold well everywhere. San Fran or NY city might allow right to declare over time but dare one push that onto a small town in rural Ohio or for that matter most of the bible belt?

It's a sticky wicket subject at best and not pushing for laws or special exceptions will get them further into society before the pushback starts.

Drug laws among other things are state laws, a gram of weed in CA is ok but cross into Nevada and get caught with it. Oops...

Get used to using the chosen gender toilets at home in Tolerant City and watch reactions trying that in right wing small city Texas.... It might not be appreciated.

 

[jeremyp]

Is there a why in any of that?

my swimming pool changing rooms around 1987'ish were unisex, girls n guys sharing cubicles if they wanted.

You seem to be ok with females ogling your body, but any male, regardless of ogling potential is a no no.
Why?

I’m not entirely sure why you think this is something that has to be justified by some rational argument. If women are uncomfortable with undressing in front of biological males, then that’s it as far as I’m concerned.

 

[The Atheist]

If white women are uncomfortable with undressing in front of biological males black women, then that’s it as far as I’m concerned.

Does that still work?

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

The entire notion that it's all "kids these days, just want attention" is because of the Nazis. Back in the 30s they burned all the research from any institution that didn't match their ideals. That included all sexuality research. It's not 'today's youth' it's your great grandfather and the generations preceding.

 

[d4m10n]

The entire notion that it's all "kids these days, just want attention" is because of the Nazis. Back in the 30s they burned all the research from any institution that didn't match their ideals. That included all sexuality research. It's not 'today's youth' it's your great grandfather and the generations preceding.

This feels amazingly off-topic, for an English language forum. We have scientists in the Anglophone world, too.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

And yet, even in this thread there is sentiment that trans is very recent and wasn't observed before this generation. Did you know that Nazis shared values with many Anglophone countries, and they also burned literature? The famous Kinsey himself got in serious trouble for his research.

 

[d4m10n]

And yet, even in this thread there is sentiment that trans is very recent and wasn't observed before this generation. Did you know that Nazis shared values with many Anglophone countries, and they also burned literature? The famous Kinsey himself got in serious trouble for his research.

There are any number of possible explanations for the recency of any given global social phenomenon. European fascists are just one, and not a very likely one.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

Not when their views were shared by many other countries? Remember that their policy of eugenics was also popular in the US, and it was even illegal at one time to badmouth the Nazis. Couple those views with the strong influence of Christians, particularly Evangelical Christians, on the governing of the US, and is it any surprise that information was suppressed or not gathered on unsanctioned 'alternate lifestyles' and that even the existence of individuals would be denied?

Nazis and Evangelicals succeeded in driving trans people so far into the closet that modern bigots are comfortable with claiming that no one they knew of growing up felt like kids these days do, and they're all lying for attention now.