Trans Women are not Women

[Belz...]

Finally, I simply know too many men who will cheerfully declare themselves to be lesbian women if there's even a small chance they'll be accepted into the locker rooms and showers of natural women. The potential for abuse is HUGE.

Really? How many is too many, in this case? I mean, how many do you know?

 

[DragonLady]

Yes, me too. I stopped posting on the topic here, partly because I was fed up being called a terf, a transphobe, a bigot and a hater, but mostly because every post I made was grossly misrepresented, misconstrued and misquoted by the trans advocates and it was frankly wearing.

Yes; I bowed out of a couple of interesting topics because I was fed up with being continually misconstrued -and it was obviously intentional, not just a failure to make myself understood.

When someone compared being forced to use the "wrong" bathroom with the victims of the holocaust, I was fed up and just quit talking about any of it -until I read your post.

 

[angrysoba]

That isn't the vagina, it's the arrangement of labia that form the outer part of the vulva. Changing a baby girl's nappies should not get you involved with the vagina, which is internal.

But Louis CK also has a bit about cleaning his daughters’ vaginas. Either he is like the rest of us who thought our biggest challenge was locating the clitoris or... the jerking off in front of women was the least of it!

 

[DragonLady]

Really? How many is too many, in this case? I mean, how many do you know?

ONE is too many if the women in question are being forced to let him in against their wishes for fear of being shouted down as "haters" and "transphobes" and "bigots".

I know more than one has said they would do so (although maybe in jest), but again, ONE is enough to recognize the potential for problems.

 

[Rolfe]

But...having been on the left for most of my life, I find myself further and further on the "right wing" side of things for refusing to be swept away with the crowd and continuing to call things the way I see them.

Please, please don't see this as a left and right thing. This side of the pond it is very left-wing Labour women who set the ball rolling and started to challenge their own political party on the subject. Left-wing SNP women are getting in on the act now too, with some success.

Also bear in mind that the driving force behind the trans lobby is a very right-wing one, coming from a very similar place (if not the same place) to men's rights activism. Trans rights activism is very very similar to men's rights activism, it's just that in this case the men are wearing dresses and makeup.

I'm reconciled to the fact that I'm on the same side here as a couple of people I can't stand politically - Claire Heuchan and Frances Barber - and in opposition to some if not many in my own party. It cuts across party lines.

 

[Belz...]

ONE is too many if the women in question are being forced to let him in against their wishes for fear of being shouted down as "haters" and "transphobes" and "bigots".

I know more than one has said they would do so (although maybe in jest), but again, ONE is enough to recognize the potential for problems.

If it's just people saying things, I'm not worried. It's when they actually do so that there's a problem.

 

[DragonLady]

Please, please don't see this as a left and right thing. This side of the pond it is very left-wing Labour women who set the ball rolling and started to challenge their own political party on the subject. Left-wing SNP women are getting in on the act now too, with some success.


Also bear in mind that the driving force behind the trans lobby is a very right-wing one, coming from a very similar place (if not the same place) to men's rights activism. Trans rights activism is very very similar to men's rights activism, it's just that in this case the men are wearing dresses and makeup.

(nods) You're right.

It's not a political discussion, really, and I guess the fact its being seen as one is one of the very reasons I get upset with the responses to it.

 

[Rolfe]

ONE is too many if the women in question are being forced to let him in against their wishes for fear of being shouted down as "haters" and "transphobes" and "bigots".

I know more than one has said they would do so (although maybe in jest), but again, ONE is enough to recognize the potential for problems.

Look at this tweet and read the writing in the photo. https://twitter.com/MollieBoss/status/1123474990760976384

Women have already been forced to leave rape crisis centres because they can't stand to share a bedroom with a man. A woman was expelled from her gym membership because she complained about a man in the women's changing room. Women in prison have already been raped by a male sex offender who was there because he called himself Karen. A woman was humiliated when, after asking for a female nurse to perform a smear test, the nurse who turned up had a 5-o'clock shadow and a baritone voice.

Adolescent girls at Guide camp are being forced to sleep in the same tent as adolescent boys, with the guidelines for leaders saying that parents must not be told to protect the privacy of the "transgirl" and any girl who objects is to be told that the boy is a girl "in every way that matters" and has every right to share her tent. (Men are also allowed to be Guide leaders if they say they're women. This is bound to end well...)

And the driving force behind all of this, as well as sheer brainwashed wokery, is the very real threat that an organisation will be stripped of its funding if it doesn't operate an "inclusive" policy. Recently a transwoman Canadian politician (Morgane Oger) boasted gleefully about having got a rape crisis centre shut down in this way, because the management refused to accept men into it. That's right, someone who identifies as a woman was happy to defund a women's refuge and see it shut down.

Women who book dormitory space in a Youth Hostel have no guarantee that they won't find themselves undressing and going to bed in the same room as a man. And that's just the ones off the top of my head. There was the teenage girls' swimming team and the man in the changing room, and...

And the common thread to all of this is that if a biological female objects or expresses any discomfort, she is the one who is to be re-educated, shamed as bigoted, and if she persists she will be the one who is forced out of the female accommodation. Except for the prisons. Women in prison just have to put up with it and smile and congratulate "Alex" whose burly frame just aced their fitness competition and made away with all the prizes. (True story.)

 

[Rolfe]

If it's just people saying things, I'm not worried. It's when they actually do so that there's a problem.

What, you're not worried when women in rape crisis centres or prison or youth hostel dorms or gym changing rooms etc etc are just called nasty names to force them to accede to the presence of a man in their intimate spaces?

 

[DragonLady]

That's right, someone who identifies as a woman was happy to defund a women's refuge and see it shut down.

That, right there, just be the alarm bell that makes everyone reconsider the whole transgender world.

I've been a staunch supporter of individual right and freedom of choices my whole life, and probably always will be.

But this topic needs to be aired out. We all need to reconsider just what, exactly, is the right course for everyone, and how to protect the rights of everyone involved, not just those that are not happy with their selves as they were born.

 

[Belz...]

What, you're not worried when women in rape crisis centres or prison or youth hostel dorms or gym changing rooms etc etc are just called nasty names to force them to accede to the presence of a man in their intimate spaces?

Remember when we were talking about being misrepresented in discussions on this topic? I feel that this is what you're doing now. Who said anything about calling women names?

What I said is that a man saying that he'll pretend to be a woman to get into changing rooms is basically bluster. If he actually does that, however, he deserves more than a simple slap upside the head. That it actually happens sometimes doesn't change the fact that most people are mostly made of hot air.

 

[Belz...]

Look at this tweet and read the writing in the photo. https://twitter.com/MollieBoss/status/1123474990760976384

Women have already been forced to leave rape crisis centres because they can't stand to share a bedroom with a man. A woman was expelled from her gym membership because she complained about a man in the women's changing room. Women in prison have already been raped by a male sex offender who was there because he called himself Karen. A woman was humiliated when, after asking for a female nurse to perform a smear test, the nurse who turned up had a 5-o'clock shadow and a baritone voice.

Adolescent girls at Guide camp are being forced to sleep in the same tent as adolescent boy, with the guidelines for leaders saying that parents must not be told to protect the privacy of the "transgirl" and any girl who objects is to be told that the boy is a girl "in every way that matters" and has every right to share her tent. (Men are also allowed to be Guide leaders if they say they're women. This is bound to end well...)

And the driving force behind all of this, as well as sheer brainwashed wokery, is the very real threat that an organisation will be stripped of its funding if it doesn't operate an "inclusive" policy. Recently a transwoman Canadian politician (Morgane Oger) boasted gleefully about having got a rape crisis centre shut down in this way, because the management refused to accept men into it. That's right, someone who identifies as a woman was happy to defund a women's refuge and see it shut down.

Women who book dormitory space in a Youth Hostel have no guarantee that they won't find themselves undressing and going to bed in the same room as a man. And that's just the ones off the top of my head. There was the teenage girls' swimming team and the man in the changing room, and...

And the common thread to all of this is that if a biological female objects or expresses any discomfort, she is the one who is to be re-educated, shamed as bigoted, and if she persists she will be the one who is forced out of the female accommodation. Except for the prisons. Women in prison just have to put up with it and smile and congratulate "Alex" whose burly frame just aced their fitness competition and made away with all the prizes. (True story.)

Scary.

 

[Rolfe]

Autogynaephilic men delude themselves that they have female brains. But the behaviour of the activist wing of this group belies that by their every word. They talk over women and down to women, they force themselves into places where they make women uncomfortable and they're positively gleeful if a woman is humiliated into having to back down and accept them into her intimate space.

This is male behaviour, every last bit if it. Lady brains my eye.

 

[DragonLady]

What I said is that a man saying that he'll pretend to be a woman to get into changing rooms is basically bluster. If he actually does that, however, he deserves more than a simple slap upside the head.

I don't think I'm alone in starting to wonder if a large percentage of those claiming to be transgendered women are really just normal men who want to force women to accept them into their spaces.

How do we really know? We're not allowed to ask any questions! "S/he says s/he's female, so s/he is!"

Right. It's a rapist's dream -and a rape victim's worst nightmare.

I'm not saying there aren't transgendered people. Nor am I saying we should unduly discriminate against them or prevent them from being allowed to express themselves and live as they choose to live.

However, those who wish to refuse a member of the opposite sex -for whatever reason- from their intimate moments and private spaces should not be forced to accept them just because they claim to be trans.

We need to find ways to protect the rights -and the privacy- of everyone involved.

 

[Meadmaker]

This woman was unaware that there even was a colloquial sense. It's pretty important to us to know the difference. [Looks in Isissxn's direction...] Well most of us.

.

Maybe it's an American thing. A lot of time we say "vagina" to mean the thing that your country calls a "fanny".

( Assuming I have my British naughty words correct.)

 

[DragonLady]

(snip)
They talk over women and down to women, they force themselves into places where they make women uncomfortable and they're positively gleeful if a woman is humiliated into having to back down and accept them into her intimate space.

This is male behaviour, every last bit if it. Lady brains my eye.

This is what I'm seeing, too.

I'm not seeing these "women trapped in men's bodies" actually acting like women, or treating other women the way women treat each other. Thus, I'm starting to believe many of them are either suffering some other issue, or just using the trans movement as camouflage for predatory tendencies.

Not all; as I've said many times before. But many.

 

[Rolfe]

Remember when we were talking about being misrepresented in discussions on this topic? I feel that this is what you're doing now. Who said anything about calling women names?

What I said is that a man saying that he'll pretend to be a woman to get into changing rooms is basically bluster. If he actually does that, however, he deserves more than a simple slap upside the head. That it actually happens sometimes doesn't change the fact that most people are mostly made of hot air.

OK, I simply misunderstood what you were trying to say. There are numerous, multiple, widespread examples of men IDing as women and taking delight in going into women's spaces and making them uncomfortable.

Here is one particularly unpleasant example.

https://mirandayardley.com/en/jonathan-yaniv-is-a-predator/
https://4thwavenow.com/2018/11/17/wordpress-dumps-gendertrender-gallus-mag-responds/
https://jonathanyaniv.org/
https://breaking-news.ca/cant-take-...against-women-who-dont-want-to-wax-his-balls/
https://steemit.com/conspiracy/@aud...ting-your-balls-waxed-a-human-right-in-canada
https://outline.com/HRnxwp

This is all one guy, but he's not the only one. The wax-my-balls thing is outrageous, but the grooming of teenage girls online and especially the part where he asks a young girl what it's like in the girls' changing room and what he should do if a ten-year-old having her first period asks him to help her insert a tampon is quite chilling.

He's powerful in the IT community. He boasted about having personally had prominent feminists banned from twitter (for "misgendering and deadnaming" him, despite him having a current online presence as Jonathan where he refers to himself as male). Morgane Oger the Canadian trans politican was protecting him until very recently until Oger realised that continuting associaton with him could damage his political career.

http://archive.is/AH3S4

Is Yaniv "really trans"? He's obviously autogynaephilic with his fantasies of having "heavy periods" despite having a penis and no uterus, and his obsession with sanitary products. I heard an audio clip of him trying to explain the "what do I do if a ten-year-old asks me for a tampon and help to insert it" thing as a joke, and he actually sounded sexually aroused as he talked about the post. So yes, he's as "really trans" as any other autogynaephile who presents as a woman, which is most MtF trans people.

How many more of him do you want?

 

[Rolfe]

Another case a year or so ago was a celebrity guy whose name I don't remember who started to ID as non-binary. He went into Top Shop dressed and presenting predominantly male and was asked to leave the female changing room, which is frequented by teen girls spending their pocket money on clothes. He objected and tweeted his annoyance to Top Shop saying "fix it!" Top Shop apologised profusely and decreed that anyone was free to use whichever changing room they wanted to use in any of their shops. There are no longer any changing rooms in Top Shop where girls can try on clothes and men are not allowed in.

 

[Belz...]

How many more of him do you want?

I think that's quite enough, actually.

 

[Ziggurat]

What I said is that a man saying that he'll pretend to be a woman to get into changing rooms is basically bluster.

I think that was the case in the past, because that used to be a high risk tactic. I don't think that will be the case now and in the future, given that the rules of trans acceptance have changed to make it low risk.

If he actually does that, however, he deserves more than a simple slap upside the head.

But he won't get even the slap upside the head anymore. That's a hate crime.

That it actually happens sometimes doesn't change the fact that most people are mostly made of hot air.

It will happen more and more as the cost of doing so has dropped. Misbehavior increases as people learn they can get away with it.