• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Fixed it for you...
Breaking news, an Obama counsel is being indicted.

No further info. Other than it is related to the Mueller investigation.

Could it be false statements regarding who gave orders to spy on the Trump campaign using high tech skateboards?
Craig's involvement with Manafort is old news. You might want to do a brief check on the internets before posting whimsical, fact-challenged speculation.
 
Trump Tweets

“And the Radical Dems reeling in disarray as the President continues to Win, Win and Win again! The Left is PRETENDING to be shocked by A.G. William Barr’s testimony before Congress in which he said SPYING did occur on the Trump 2016 Campaign.” @LouDobbs @FoxNews
 
The British weren't spying on Trump. The British were logging calls* with Russian agents, noted that there was a lot of contact between those agents and Trump associates, and informed American intelligence agencies.

*As in, not even listening in on, but rather doing the equivalent of looking at their phone bill to see what numbers are on it.
 
Trump Tweets

President Obama’s top White House lawyer, Gregory B. Craig, was indicted yesterday on very serious charges. This is a really big story, but the Fake News New York Times didn’t even put it on page one, rather page 16. @washingtonpost not much better, “tiny” page one. Corrupt News!

“Democrats don’t like the results of the Mueller Report, so now they’re trying everything else.” @RepDougCollins
They should stop wasting time and money and get back to real legislating, especially on the Border!
 
The indictment of Gregory Craig has little to nothing to do with the Obama administration. The charge relates to Craig not revealing he had done work for the Ukrainian government -- after he had left the Obama administration -- and failing to register as a foreign agent. Craig had previously served as White House counsel for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama (in 2008-2009). The work he did in the Ukraine -- Craig disputes it was "lobbying" -- came through a referral from Paul Manafort and took place in 2012.
In an indictment that seized the attention of the capital’s K Street lobbying corridor, Gregory B. Craig, a White House counsel in the Obama administration, was charged on Thursday with lying to the Justice Department and concealing information about work he did in 2012 for the government of Ukraine. The charges against Mr. Craig, on the other hand, stem from public relations, rather than lobbying. While Mr. Craig was not charged with failing to register under the law, the indictment accuses him of lying to, and withholding information from, the Justice Department officials who oversee Foreign Agents Registration Act in order to avoid registration.

Before the indictment, Mr. Craig’s lawyers asserted that the case against their client was flimsy, pointing out that Mr. Mueller’s team had referred it to federal prosecutors in Manhattan last year for potential prosecution related to foreign lobbying laws, but that they did not bring charges. Instead, the case was moved in January to Washington. Link
 
In looking at the U.S. Espionage act -- under which Julian Assange has been indicted (in another thread) -- it occurrs to me certain members of the Trump campaign, including Donald Trump, Jr., possibly even Donald Trump himself, could have been indicted under the Act's Section 2.
Section 2
Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury or the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicated, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to, or aids, or induces another to, communicate, deliver or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly and document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defence, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than twenty years: Provided, That whoever shall violate the provisions of subsection: Link

This explains Trump's continuing manic behavior towards the Mueller Investigation and everything and everyone connected to it. Plus certain statements by William Brennan to the effect that Trump was and is guilty of treason. I would bet at some point one of Trump's many lawyers might have told him. "The worst case scenario would be, that you could potentially be charged with espionage." Trump seems to have so little idea of how things work, so little knowledge of anything outside his immediate day-to-day concerns, I can easily imagine him being stunned by this. Explains a lot pf his behavior.
 
An interesting exchange at a plenary discussion in St. Petersburg this week with the heads of state of Finland, Norway, Sweden and Iceland present (the topic was the Arctic):

[text is in public domain and some people might be afraid of visiting the Kremlin website so I quote the relevant part in full]

[...] John Fraher: [...] At the Helsinki summit, Trump invited you to Washington. Now that the Mueller report is out of the way, do you think that Trump would be better able to deliver on his promise of good relations with Russia? And are you expecting an invitation to the White House this year?

Vladimir Putin: You know, we have a good book called The Twelve Chairs and there is a line in it: “Come visit us, my old mother will be very happy. But he did not leave his address.”

The time must be ripe. We said from the very start that this notorious commission of Mr Mueller will not find anything because nobody knows this better than us. Russia has not interfered in any elections in the United States. This is the first point.

Second, there was no collusion between Trump and Russia, which is what Mr Mueller was looking for. I was not acquainted with Mr Trump. Yes, he came to Moscow but as a businessman and, frankly speaking, this was not a big event for us. This is sheer nonsense designed exclusively for domestic consumption and used in the internal politics of the US.

So we knew a mountain was being made out of a molehill, so to speak, because we knew how it would end beforehand. I was telling you this the whole time. Now it has come to pass, but it did not make the domestic political situation in the US any easier. Now new excuses are being sought to attack President Trump.

It seems to me (excuse the digression) that this points to something of a crisis in the US political system itself. Look at what is happening. The groups that are attacking the duly elected President do not agree with the choice made by the American people. They are nullifying the result.

This amounts to a crisis of the political system. We have never seen anything like this in US history before. Yes, there may be a fierce campaign but once a nominee wins, everyone accept it. This was always the case and all people united around the head of state to meet common national challenges. We are not seeing anything of the kind in the US now. On the contrary, the rift is deepening.

Do you understand what happened? They put their group or party interests above the national interest. This is what happened.

I am not at all defending President Trump. Our positions differ on lots of issues. Numerous sanctions have been introduced against Russia under his administration. Naturally, we do not and will never agree with this and consider it counterproductive. But if full-scale, equitable dialogue between the US and Russia is restored, including the discussion of disarmament issues that are of interest both to us and all humankind, we will only be too happy. We are ready for this.

John Fraher: President Trump says he feels vindicated by the Mueller report. President Putin, on a personal level, after everything that has happened – President Trump calls it a witch hunt – after everything that has happened, do you feel happy for him on a personal level? On the outcome of the Mueller report?

Vladimir Putin: President Trump knows best. We know from US history what a witch hunt is. It is a dark chapter in US history. We would rather it never repeats.

John Fraher: I have one final question on this. At the famous Helsinki press conference… One more, last one, I promise. You said that you hoped Trump would win the 2016 election because he promised to make relations with Russia better. Right now, do you want him to win again in 2020?

Vladimir Putin: You know, I have already said that we disagree on many international issues, on problems related to the resolution of some crises. But we also have some elements of cooperation. However different the approaches we take to settling the Syrian crisis, there is still cooperation there, we work together.

We have common problems in the Arctic, and we have gathered here, by the way, to solve and discuss them. The United States has many interests of its own in the Arctic zone. We face many problems related to climate change in general. We know that the US did not sign the Paris Agreement, and the US Administration has its own reasons and logic. I am not among those who feel the current Administration should be attacked for this, we just need to engage in dialogue.

And in that case I think we will be able to try to find a common solution. Because it is hard to expect effective work from the international community without US participation in the process, or China’s or India’s participation, for example. The US is a big emitter. It is obvious, and we must acknowledge it. This is why a solution must be found, the US should be brought on board and invited to engage in dialogue. On the whole, as I see it, Mr Trump does not refuse. That is number one, and even number two.

Third, I feel that many bilateral matters are currently perceived under the pressure of the domestic political situation. We hope when the situation gets back to normal, prospects will open for cooperation, including bilateral, on the issues I mentioned. And they include terrorism, epidemics and the environment. Actually, there are many issues, including arms control.

I think we are all interested in that but we will start working when the conditions in the US are right. It does not depend on whether we want it or not. What does that even mean, to want it or not? This is not an area where such categories can be applied. We respect the choice of the American people. We are ready to work with their president whoever it might be. [...]
 
An interesting exchange at a plenary discussion in St. Petersburg this week with the heads of state of Finland, Norway, Sweden and Iceland present (the topic was the Arctic):

[text is in public domain and some people might be afraid of visiting the Kremlin website so I quote the relevant part in full]

What makes you believe a murderous thug like Putin? Time and time again, you quote him as if he is believable. He is only marginally more honest than Trump.
 
Rosenstein: Accusations against Barr are 'bizarre'

"It would be one thing if you put out a letter and said, ‘I’m not going to give you the report,’ ” Rosenstein said in the interview. “What he said is: ‘Look, it’s going to take a while to process the report. In the meantime, people really want to know what’s in it. I’m going to give you the top-line conclusions.’ That’s all he was trying to do.”

The narrative is starting to twist back quickly, now.
 
This is rumor control, and these are the facts:
1. Trump colluded with Russia.
2. Mueller proved it.
3. Mueller's report contains the proof.
4. Barr is lying about it.
5. Barr's redactions will conceal the proof.
6. Congress will be powerless to act.
7. The public will never know the truth.
8. But the public will always know the truth, if you know what I mean.

Actually, number 8 is probably the only real "fact" on that list. Sorry.
 
What makes you believe a murderous thug like Putin? Time and time again, you quote him as if he is believable. He is only marginally more honest than Trump.


I wouldn't believe any murderous thug. Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is maybe the most grown-up, pragmatic political leader of a relevant country early into this century, though, and there is no doubt that he is expressing his honest opinion at this venue you would have never heard of without my post. Even if he were a murderous thug like you have been led to believe, his comments would be relevant to this topic just for informational purposes.
 
I wouldn't believe any murderous thug. Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is maybe the most grown-up, pragmatic political leader of a relevant country early into this century, though, and there is no doubt that he is expressing his honest opinion at this venue you would have never heard of without my post. Even if he were a murderous thug like you have been led to believe, his comments would be relevant to this topic just for informational purposes.

That statement is equal in truth, and believability as anything Vladimir Putin says.
 
I wouldn't believe any murderous thug. Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is maybe the most grown-up, pragmatic political leader of a relevant country early into this century, though, and there is no doubt that he is expressing his honest opinion at this venue you would have never heard of without my post. Even if he were a murderous thug like you have been led to believe, his comments would be relevant to this topic just for informational purposes.

That statement is equal in truth, and believability as anything Vladimir Putin says.
You're right plague. But I have to wonder why her Empress would think that the self serving words of murderous dictator should be relevant?
 
You're right plague. But I have to wonder why her Empress would think that the self serving words of murderous dictator should be relevant?


"Audiatur et altera pars" is a key point of "western" civilization you think you are defending here. Let the other side be heard as well, and I'm not surprised that the English wikipedia must have a different translation (look up "Languages" to the left to see that almost every civilized language wikipedia has it under "Audiatur et altera pars").

Wise up.
 
Last edited:
Sure CE.

Though given the Russian government's body of work under 20 years of Putin, you can't help but have your guard up when dealing with him, at the least.

He is denying both the interference and collusion. I think if collusion is not found, which I believe will be the case, he hopes most people will take the mental shortcut that "this whole Russia thing is ********!". There are people who feel that way now because of the media circus around it for the past two years.
 
"Audiatur et altera pars" is a key point of "western" civilization you think you are defending here. Let the other side be heard as well, and I'm not surprised that the English wikipedia must have a different translation (look up "Languages" to the left to see that almost every civilized language wikipedia has it under "Audiatur et altera pars").

Wise up.

Still, you're going to a criminal and expecting that he's going to tell you the truth.
 
Still, you're going to a criminal and expecting that he's going to tell you the truth.


Still you're whining that somebody shows you what the other side says about the cult doctrine. Why are you abusing a forum devoted to critical thinking with this nonsense? And ignoring my sound advise on the basics of that thought tradition going back to the Romans? What are you afraid of?
 
Last edited:
Still you're whining that somebody shows you what the other side says about the cult doctrine. Why are you abusing a forum devoted to critical thinking with this nonsense? And ignoring my sound advise on the basics of that thought tradition going back to the Romans? What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid that he will use democratic principles to take down democracies. That he will buy American candidates who will do his bidding. Put Russia and its oligarchs ahead of Americans.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom