The Trump Presidency 13: The (James) Baker's Dozen

Status
Not open for further replies.
Skeptic Ginger said:
'Course I'm not wrong. Pompeo is right up there with maximum crazy.
Click to expand...

I love the Trump enablers' responses to Pompeo's closed bible-thumping-press briefing. What are the odds that it was a pep rally to make sure the bible belters for the end-of-times reading on Trump's proposed announcement.

I now read that Trump's planning on inviting Bibi to the US prior to the elections in Israel. And Pompeo, when asked by a fundie reporter in Jerusalem if Trump was sent by God to help Israel, wouldn't rule out the possibility!

Blatant electioneering for, not Israel, but for Netanyahu. After the treatment of Omar, though, no one in Congress will step up and criticize.
 
Aridas said:
On to Trump. Probably to the surprise of no one here, Trump's been funneling significant amounts of campaign funds into his pocket. $1.3 million, at least, according to a Forbes article. This is not a sign of a good business man. This is a sign of a corrupt as **** man.
Click to expand...


Also, not the sign of a mentally sound individual. Why would someone claiming to be worth upwards of $7 billion want to skim $1.3 million? A rational multi-billionaire doesn’t need to break the law to filch $1.3 million. Then again, I’m not entirely convinced that President Trump believes that his pocketing campaign funds is breaking the law.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Blatant electioneering for, not Israel, but for Netanyahu.
Click to expand...

You say that like it's a bad thing. But why? Is there some principle against helping the election prospects of specific foreign candidates? Or is it just Netanyahu? Do the methods used to influence the election prospects of a specific foreign candidate matter? Are some methods OK but others not? Are re all methods proscribed? I'm curious if you can flesh this out a little more.
 
Ziggurat said:
You say that like it's a bad thing. But why? Is there some principle against helping the election prospects of specific foreign candidates? Or is it just Netanyahu? Do the methods used to influence the election prospects of a specific foreign candidate matter? Are some methods OK but others not? Are re all methods proscribed? I'm curious if you can flesh this out a little more.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but it really isn't something that the US should ever be doing, nor any other country. Elections in theory are solely the domain of that state. For example, Russia influencing the American elections to get Trump elected was wrong.
 
a_unique_person said:
I could be wrong but it really isn't something that the US should ever be doing, nor any other country. Elections in theory are solely the domain of that state. For example, Russia influencing the American elections to get Trump elected was wrong.
Click to expand...

Your position doesn't actually make sense.

Suppose country A is having an election, with candidate 1 and candidate 2. Candidate 1 says that if he's elected, country A will invade an island belonging to country B, claiming that country B won't think it's worth getting in a fight over that island. Candidate 2 says that if he's elected, country A will not invade that island, because country B will fight for it and country A will lose.

In this scenario, is it wrong for country B to announce to the citizens of country A that it will in fact vigorously defend the island? Doing so could certainly influence the election. But it's obviously not wrong. The citizens of country A are better informed in their choice because of country B's efforts.

So there's nothing automatically wrong with influencing elections in other countries. Now, there are distinctions we can draw between different kinds of influence, some of them being relevant to Russia. For example, influencing the election in another country through covert or illegal means is a hostile act against that country. My hypothetical didn't require any covert or illegal means, but Russia did use covert and illegal means in the US.

So how does this relate to Trump and Netanyahu? Well, is what Trump is doing covert? Is it illegal? No and no.

So why is it wrong? The claim that influencing elections is categorically wrong doesn't withstand even cursory scrutiny. Is there anything beyond that?
 
Ziggurat said:
So why is it wrong? The claim that influencing elections is categorically wrong doesn't withstand even cursory scrutiny. Is there anything beyond that?
Click to expand...

How about the idea that, in everything it does, our government should adhere to moral and ethical guidelines that reflect our supposed national values? It's perfectly fair and reasonable to support the election of someone who shares those values opposing someone who doesn't, and if we can influence that election by publicly expressing support, then we should. In any other case, we should probably stay out of an election unless we are willing to honestly express what national interest we are supporting -- no hidden agendas -- but that might have more of a negative influence. Anything illegal should be forbidden automatically, of course, and anything done secretively should be assumed to be either illegal, immoral or unethical, so transparency is a requirement. Democratic elections must be fair elections or they aren't really democratic.

Vis-a-vis Netanyahu, supporting Israel's right to exist and defend itself against threatening enemies does not entail supporting illiberal policies like apartheid and illegal settlements. If for no other reason than the fact that those policies are making a bad situation worse, if we are going to officially try to influence that election, I'd say we should be trying to influence it away from those policies. Opposing someone who advances those illiberal policies is not anti-Semitism --- it's pro-liberalism -- and if Trump can't bring himself to supporting liberal policies, he at least ought to keep his tiny hands off that election.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump tweets

We are here today to take historic action to defend American Students and American Values. In a few moments, I will be signing an Executive Order to protect FREE SPEECH on College Campuses.

(video link in tweet)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1108823762659667970
Click to expand...
As remarked elsewhere (probably on this forum), it's going to be amusing to watch their reaction when Louis Farrakhan and Nation of Islam says 'Thank you very much' and start appearing on college campuses.

Akin to how Saint Ronnie and the NRA reacted when the Black Panthers started showing up armed on street corners, by abandoning their principles since it wasn't meant to cover 'the other side' too.
 
Is anyone willing to go to war with China to stop them from claiming the South China Sea? This is right wing thinking. The only way to get another country to change course is to take military action. Our only option is to shoot and bomb.

Is that really the only way to get China to back off on its claims? How about sanctions and negotiations? Too namby-pamby?
 
Problem is: China cares way more about gaining control of the SCS than the US cares about keeping it.
So the actual card to play here is to offer recognition of China's control in return for security guarantees and monitoring access.
 
Ladewig said:
Also, not the sign of a mentally sound individual. Why would someone claiming to be worth upwards of $7 billion want to skim $1.3 million? A rational multi-billionaire doesn’t need to break the law to filch $1.3 million.
Click to expand...

Recall that he allegedly broke the law by using his charitable foundation’s funds to pay Barron’s $7 Boy Scout dues. And allegedly had a NY jeweler help him evade sales tax by shipping an empty box to an out-of-state address.

Reminiscent of Aesop’s fable of the scorpion and the frog - it’s just in his nature!
 
Last edited:
Trump Tweets

“Our own Benjamin Hall is doing fantastic reporting on ISIS right on the from line (True). ISIS was willing to die but now, because of big pressure, save for a few people in caves, most have surrendered. A testament to our President.”

Thank you Pete Hegseth @foxandfriends
 
There are a multitude of issues and interests involved with China's claims to the South China Sea. It's not just a U.S-China matter. However, the Trump administration has been doing some saber rattling recently. Last month during his trip to the Philippines Secretary of State Mike Pompeo addressed the issue:
Any attack on Philippine aircraft or ships in the South China Sea would trigger a response from the United States under a mutual defense treaty between the two countries, a firm assurance to its longtime ally amid rising Chinese militarization in the contested waters. Link
Click to expand...

Is an attack on a Philippine ship worth risking WWIII? What does Sean Hannity think?
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Recall that he allegedly broke the law by using his charitable foundation’s funds to pay Barron’s $7 Boy Scout dues. And allegedly had a NY jeweler help him evade sales tax by shipping an empty box to an out-of-state address.

Reminiscent of Aesop’s fable of the scorpion and the frog - it’s just in his nature!
Click to expand...



Yes, he's just incredibly petty. And it's not just his personal finances that are like that. In the NAFTA negotiations, he kept whining about not getting a bigger percentage of the Canadian dairy market, which is worth about $10 billion a year. He was willing to torpedo a trade deal worth over a trillion dollars over an issue of a few percent of 10 billion. But he wants his tiny cut, dammit! Math be damned!
 
Also, not the sign of a mentally sound individual. Why would someone claiming to be worth upwards of $7 billion want to skim $1.3 million? A rational multi-billionaire doesn’t need to break the law to filch $1.3 million.
Click to expand...
I think you may have given one possibility right there.

Trump claims to be a billionaire. But given all the businesses that he had that declared bankruptcy, the fact that north American banks won't touch him with a 10 foot poll, his unwillingness to release his tax returns, and his seeming incompetence when it comes to understanding the economy, its possible that Trump is actually poor (or that he has more in debt than assets.)

He may actually NEED the few millions that the latest scams bring in.
 
Segnosaur said:
I think you may have given one possibility right there.

Trump claims to be a billionaire. But given all the businesses that he had that declared bankruptcy, the fact that north American banks won't touch him with a 10 foot poll, his unwillingness to release his tax returns, and his seeming incompetence when it comes to understanding the economy, its possible that Trump is actually poor (or that he has more in debt than assets.)

He may actually NEED the few millions that the latest scams bring in.
Click to expand...

Also, he has been doing business this way for his entire life. When “The Apprentice” needed to rent office space, he insisted that the producer rent space in Trump Tower. Mr. Trump, of course added a premium to the rent. He is being investigated for renting hotel space to the inauguration committee for a price significantly greater than the prevailing rate. He really doesn’t see anything wrong with doing business this way, and as long as he is not doing these transactions with donated money that must be accounted for on federal forms, there is nothing illegal.
 
Trump Tweets

ISIS uses the internet better than almost anyone, but for all of those susceptible to ISIS propaganda, they are now being beaten badly at every level....

....There is nothing to admire about them, they will always try to show a glimmer of vicious hope, but they are losers and barely breathing. Think about that before you destroy your lives and the lives of your family!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

ISIS uses the internet better than almost anyone, but for all of those susceptible to ISIS propaganda, they are now being beaten badly at every level....

....There is nothing to admire about them, they will always try to show a glimmer of vicious hope, but they are losers and barely breathing. Think about that before you destroy your lives and the lives of your family!
Click to expand...

Trump thinks his audience includes a peculiar subset of people who simultaneously would be inclined to join ISIS but also amenable to advice from Trump? Who would such people be? Do white supremacist radical Muslims exist? Maybe in the Caucasus but they'd be anti Russian as well.
 
Segnosaur said:
I think you may have given one possibility right there.

Trump claims to be a billionaire. But given all the businesses that he had that declared bankruptcy, the fact that north American banks won't touch him with a 10 foot poll, his unwillingness to release his tax returns, and his seeming incompetence when it comes to understanding the economy, its possible that Trump is actually poor (or that he has more in debt than assets.)

He may actually NEED the few millions that the latest scams bring in.
Click to expand...



For many years people claimed that despite all of his talk, Trump would never actually run for President, because releasing his tax returns would reveal that he was nowhere near as rich as he claimed to be, or as rich as his public image depended on him being. So he refused to release them, and here we are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom