The Trump Presidency 13: The (James) Baker's Dozen

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President Donald Trump is leaving Vietnam without a deal on North Korean denuclearization, but insisted he had some “reasonably attractive news” on other peace efforts.

At an end-of-trip press conference in Hanoi, Trump opened by touting his administration's efforts to deescalate tensions between India and Pakistan — which are currently clashing over incursions in the disputed Kashmir region — and later said he’s confident his administration can broker a Middle East peace deal.

“It is interesting, all my life I've heard that the toughest of all deals — when they talk about tough deals — we all like deals, but the toughest of all deals would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians,” he told an Israeli reporter on Thursday.

The president’s optimism comes as Jared Kushner, his senior adviser and son-in-law who has taken the reigns of negotiating a long-evaded peace plan, makes a seven day swing through the Middle East to discuss the proposal, making visits to Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Trump has, in the past, referred to such an agreement as the “deal of the century.”

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Many experts have said Kushner's plan will be dead on arrival, though. The Palestinians have refused to meet with Trump administration officials ever since the president decided to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and move the U.S. Embassy there — changes long sought by Netanyahu.
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https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/28/trump-middle-east-peace-1195057

Trump in search for noble prizes!
 
timhau said:
This is actually a better outcome than what I expected. Trump didn't give out any concessions while getting nothing in return this time.
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Completely agree - it is the best anyone in the US could have hoped for, after Trump decided to a second meeting.
Whoever made Trump see the consequences of giving in to KJU deserves a lot of praise.
 
timhau said:
This is actually a better outcome than what I expected. Trump didn't give out any concessions while getting nothing in return this time.
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He did give concessions - he publicly endorsed Kim's account of the torturing to death of an American teenager, and he agreed to an ending of the need for NK to give the US a total accounting of its nuclear capabilities.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
He did give concessions - he publicly endorsed Kim's account of the torturing to death of an American teenager, and he agreed to an ending of the need for NK to give the US a total accounting of its nuclear capabilities.
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Compared to what he could have done, that is not so bad. It's just Trump being what Rex Tillerson said he is.
 
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timhau said:
When the US gets an adult in the White House, that requirement can be reinstated. Yes, it's a terrible idea, but I'm not sure whether it has long-term consequences.
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You have moved the goal posts from "didn't give out any concessions" to "I'm not sure whether it has long term consequences" in three posts.
 
I think the biggest change now that the D's control congress and are using their oversight power is that Trump no longer has such easy control of the media narrative.

Yesterday's Cohen testimony totally dominated Trump's dog and pony show with N. Korea. It isn't going to be as easy for Trump to hand-select the topic du jour anymore. The D's can sink their teeth into the various corruption issues and refuse to let go now that they can conjure up a public hearing at will.
 
smartcooky said:
If Trump loses the 2020 election, he is no longer the President as of noon, January 20, 2021. The Secret Service no longer protect him, the Marines in the White House must regard him as an intruder. They remove him; by force if necessary.
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If Trump were to attempt to subvert his losing the 2020 election -- and some pretty serious people are concerned about this possibility (aka forewarned is forearmed) -- it is unlikely there would be a Jan. 20, 2021 showdown. It would probably happen much earlier, in November 2020, and involve Trump claiming, with Republican support, there was massive voter fraud in the election and the results should be discarded. That there should not be an electoral college vote held until "we can get to the bottom of this fraud." Polling has indicated that most Republican voters would be inclined to support that.

If it happened, our democracy would pretty much be finished. But as has become clear, there are many people out there who wouldn't care about that. They want to live in a world that reflects their values. Polling has shown younger people in particular are much more willing to accept a watered down form of totalitarian government if it means they would be personally secure and prosperous in an orderly society. It's tribalism and the haves vs. the have-nots run amuck.
Citizens are less committed to democracy than they once were; while more than two-thirds of older Americans say that it is essential to them to live in a democracy, for example, less than a third of younger Americans do. They are also more open to authoritarian alternatives; two decades ago, for example, 25% of Britons said that they liked the idea of “a strongman ruler who does not have to bother with parliament and elections”; today, 50% of them do. And these attitudes are increasingly reflected in our politics: from Great Britain to the US, and from Germany to Hungary, respect for democratic rules and norms has precipitously declined. No longer the only game in town, democracy is now deconsolidating. Link
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This is why some pretty smart people believe our democracy has never been as much at risk as it is today.
 
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newyorkguy said:
Notice, nobody is claiming he denied it? Ever. It's probably not realistic to think that Putin ever will admit it any time soon nor would any current Russian government officials make such an admission in defiance of Putin -- Russians who create problems for Putin have a way of turning up dead -- but many Russians outside the government or safely retired from the government have stated they believe Putin at least okayed the interference if not actively orchestrated it.
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The highlighted part is not accurate. This article is about an explicit denial of interference in the US election in July.

Just so a certain turtle doesn't misunderstand me: I am not at all suggesting that we ought to take Putin at his word. I am merely correcting newyorkguy's misstatement and I am certain that he's adult enough to accept a correction. Indeed, newyorkguy is a full growed man who probably appreciates factual corrections, because that's just a sign of basic intellectual maturity.
 
I stand corrected, on July 16, 2018 Putin did categorically deny any Russian involvement in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Here's a quote from the article that was linked.

“I had to reiterate things I said several times, including during our personal contacts, that the Russian state has never interfered and is not going to interfere into internal American affairs including election process,” Putin said through a translator. “Any specific material, if such things arise, we are ready to analyze together.” He went on to suggest Russia would be ready to collaborate with U.S. officials on a “joint working group on cybersecurity.”

Putin’s claim is at odds with the unanimous conclusion of the U.S. intelligence community and federal criminal investigators. Days before the meeting, special counsel Robert Mueller’s team indicted 12 Russian intelligence officers for hacking Democratic officials during the 2016 contest. Link
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Of course, the problem with Putin's denial is, it came three days after twelve Russian intelligence officers were indicted by the Mueller investigation. Note in his denial, Putin says “Any specific material, if such things arise, we are ready to analyze together.” But specific material had already arisen.
The special counsel investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election issued an indictment of 12 Russian intelligence officers on Friday in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton presidential campaign. The indictment came only three days before President Trump was planning to meet with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia in Helsinki, Finland.

Most of the Russian intelligence officials charged in Friday’s indictment worked for the Russian military intelligence agency, formerly known as the G.R.U. and now called the Main Directorate. Link
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This incident created a strong protest in Congress and in public when Trump said publicly he accepted Putin's denial.

Helsinki, Finland (CNN) - US President Donald Trump, in a stunning rebuke of the US intelligence community, declined on Monday to endorse the US government's assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election, saying he doesn't "see any reason why" Russia would be responsible. Instead, Trump -- standing alongside Russian President Vladimir Putin -- touted Putin's vigorous denial and pivoted to complaining about the Democratic National Committee's server and missing emails from Hillary Clinton's personal account. "I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today," Trump said during a joint news conference after he spent about two hours in a room alone with Putin, save for a pair of interpreters. Trump's statements amounted to an unprecedented refusal by a US president to believe his own intelligence agencies over the word of a foreign adversary and drew swift condemnation from across the partisan divide. Link
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In an interview Trump stated he blamed the United States as much as Russia and that the Mueller investigation was a bigger problem for the two countries than was the election meddling (which Trump didn't believe happened, based on Putin's denial). Many people found it astounding -- and probably some of them were in the Trump administration -- that the president would accept the word of Vladimir Putin over the findings of U.S. intelligence agencies.
 
smartcooky said:
If Trump loses the 2020 election, he is no longer the President as of noon, January 20, 2021. The Secret Service no longer protect him, the Marines in the White House must regard him as an intruder. They remove him; by force if necessary.
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Actually, all ex presidents are entitled to some secret service protection.
But agreed. If Trump refuses to leave after losing the election, expect a news conference shortly thereafter from the Pentagon saying thwy regard the President Elect as their legal commander.
Hell, rather then have the military eject Trump, just call upon the DC police to do it as a "unlawful Trespass:
 
dudalb said:
Actually, all ex presidents are entitled to some secret service protection.
But agreed. If Trump refuses to leave after losing the election, expect a news conference shortly thereafter from the Pentagon saying thwy regard the President Elect as their legal commander.
Hell, rather then have the military eject Trump, just call upon the DC police to do it as a "unlawful Trespass:
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Trump is so used to being served with lawsuits and orders to appear he would probably just accept it by habit.
 
dudalb said:
So his great deal with Kim falls apart.
Not a good week for Donnie, is it?
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Indeed so.

In fact, this second Kim summit rather confirms something that I have suspected since the first Kim summit.

And that is, Kim has determined that Trump will not be re-elected and as such, Kim is simply stalling until 2020 when Trump is out of the picture.
 
Crossbow said:
Indeed so.

In fact, this second Kim summit rather confirms something that I have suspected since the first Kim summit.

And that is, Kim has determined that Trump will not be re-elected and as such, Kim is simply stalling until 2020 when Trump is out of the picture.
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He's not stalling, he's got major concessions without giving anything up himself, both times.
 
I love the way Trump believes anything that Kim tells him.
Me, If Kim said the sun sets in the evening and rises in the morning, I would stay up all night just to be sure.
 
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