The Trump Presidency 13: The (James) Baker's Dozen

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Lurch said:
In harking back to the now clearly seen improprieties of FDR and Wilson as a means to make light of the Trump ****-show, one must beware of context. After all, FDR's earlier tenure is now nearing a *century* past. This is 2019, where society has evolved in ways practically inconceivable back then. Gay marriage. A negro President. To name but two.
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...the fact that the term "negro" is now regarded as a slur...
 
Brainster said:
Yes, only Iran should be allowed to pursue its nuclear program.
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Can you explain how Iran's pursuit of nukes can only be countered by giving nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia? Unless you're hoping SA will destroy Iran in nuclear war before Iran can get them I'm not seeing how that could work.
 
Ziggurat said:
If the president can define what constitutes an emergency (because the law doesn't define it), then that definition can diverge from the common definition. You're depending on the common definition still holding, but that may not be the case. And even supposing courts decide on some definition of emergency which doesn't include this one, that doesn't mean all the other active emergencies fit that court-determined definition.

So far, the only unambiguous distinguishing feature of Trump's emergency is the lack of deference to his authority in declaring it. But that's an extrinsic quality, not an intrinsic one.
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WRONG ON ALL COUNTS.

What is unambiguous is that there is no emergency. That the issues Trump says he is trying to solve are less problematic than they have been in a decade. And the declared emergency is based on a campaign promise. And Trump only declared the emergency as a strategy to circumvent the legislative and constitutional authority prescribed to Congress. Finally, the problem isn't the deference to him, but his lack of deference to Congress and the principles he swore to uphold.
 
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acbytesla said:
WRONG ON ALL COUNTS.

What is unambiguous is that there is no emergency. That the issues Trump says he is trying to solve are less problematic than they have been in a decade. And the declared emergency is based on a campaign promise. And Trump only declared the emergency as a strategy to circumvent the legislative and constitutional authority prescribed to Congress. Finally, the problem isn't the deference to him, but his lack of deference to Congress and the principles he swore to uphold.
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Yep.

He thinks he's "The Boss" and he's acting like one; he doesn't understand that his boss is actually the American people, and even if he did understand it, he would never accept it.

He demands loyalty from the AG, the DoJ and the courts. He doesn't understand that they actually owe their loyalty to the Constitution not to him, and again, even if he did understand this, he would never accept it.
 
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smartcooky said:
Yep.

He thinks he's "The Boss" and he's acting like one; he doesn't undertsand that his boss is actually the American people, and even if he did understand it, he would never accept it.

He demands loyalty from the AG, the DoJ and the courts. He doesn't understand that they actually owe their loyalty to the Constitution not to him, and again, even if he did understand this, he would never accept it.
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I've said before that watching the movie "Dave" should be a required part of taking office, particularly the speech at the end.

"I forgot that I was hired to do a job for you and that it was just a temp job at that. I forgot that I had two hundred and fifty million people who were paying me to make their lives a little better and I didn't live up to my part of the bargain. See, there are certain things you should expect from a President. I ought to care more about you than I do about me... I ought to care more about what's right than I do about what's popular. I ought to be willing to give this whole thing up for something I believe in."
 
Armitage72 said:
I've said before that watching the movie "Dave" should be a required part of taking office, particularly the speech at the end.

"I forgot that I was hired to do a job for you and that it was just a temp job at that. I forgot that I had two hundred and fifty million people who were paying me to make their lives a little better and I didn't live up to my part of the bargain. See, there are certain things you should expect from a President. I ought to care more about you than I do about me... I ought to care more about what's right than I do about what's popular. I ought to be willing to give this whole thing up for something I believe in."
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Great movie. One of Gary Ross's best if not his best.
 
Armitage72 said:
I've said before that watching the movie "Dave" should be a required part of taking office, particularly the speech at the end.

"I forgot that I was hired to do a job for you and that it was just a temp job at that. I forgot that I had two hundred and fifty million people who were paying me to make their lives a little better and I didn't live up to my part of the bargain. See, there are certain things you should expect from a President. I ought to care more about you than I do about me... I ought to care more about what's right than I do about what's popular. I ought to be willing to give this whole thing up for something I believe in."
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Given who we're talking about, the speech at the end of The Great Dictator would be more appropriate.
 
Segnosaur said:
A little bit of historical context is important.

Yes, if you look through the actions of Wilson and FDR you can find things they did that were... questionable (such as japanese internment). However, their actions should be weighed against the fact that 1) society was substantially different back then, and 2) for at least part of their terms, they were dealing with major military conflicts that the U.S. did not directly initiate.

We can look back now and see that things like the Japanese internment camps were wrong. But that's because society's norms have changed (for the better).

The problem with Trump is that he doesn't seem to have learned anything.
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That is a substantially different problem than Trump trying to become a dictator. He isn't.
 
Ziggurat said:
That is a substantially different problem than Trump trying to become a dictator. He isn't.
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Well, he is sure acting like he is.

1. Stacking the courts
2. Demanding unconditional loyalty
3. Ruling by edict
4. Gutting the justice department
5. Ignoring the advice of more experienced people
6. Surrounding himself only with people who agree with him
7. Circumventing the Constitution
8. Demonizing a groups of people based on their ethnicity and/or skin colour

There are probably further indicators that others will think of.
 
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Belz... said:
I'm not sure we can say that.
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I am.

He does have autocratic tendencies, though the odds of him making an actual power grab seem low; he's way too lazy.
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Laziness may play a role. Part of it is that he's already rich, so no need to become rich through office. Part of it is that he's not ideological. And of course, the institutions and traditions of our government and society will thwart most attempts anyways. So whether or not he would become a dictator if he could snap his fingers and make it happen by magic (which isn't ultimately knowable let alone provable), it's not actually happening. He's not even going to seriously try, never mind succeed.
 
Armitage72 said:
Attacking the media and suggesting that they'll face "retribution" from the government for saying things he doesn't like.
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Where does he say he expects the retribution to be from govt?
Remember his last rally?
 
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