National Emergency

[KDLarsen]

So with this almost inevitably ending up before the Supreme Court, how do we think the conservative justices are going to explain away

“But I want to do it faster,” he said. “I can do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn’t need to do this. I would rather do it much faster.”

Of course, the White House is already busy massaging the record, with Sarah Huckabee Sanders saying the President meant to say “shouldn’t have to do this."

 

[thaiboxerken]

I think Trump staying until the next election is the best solution, and the Democrats know this. The alternative is Pence. You think Pence would be a do-nothing, no-deal-with-the-GOP president like Trump?

I think Pence would be a danger in a different way, but I don't know that he'd burn the world down to make a buck, like Trump seems to be eager to do.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I live in the middle here, way North of Texas. When will these hordes arrive?

Look at the Democratic side of the House, they are already here. Trump and his Republicans think it's disgusting that there is so much color in the government.

 

[Minoosh]

Bit off topic, but I wonder how Pence's wife really feels about Pence meeting women in private.

I mean, its a really dump rule that he has. (Does he honestly think every woman he meets would be all over him, if only she could get him in a private meeting.) I just wonder if his wife agrees with the rule, or whether Pence is doing it on his own initiative and his wife doesn't care.

Well it does give him some protection as far as accusations of harassment.

Back on The Wall - CNN ran a story in December about big problems with a contractor that is supposed to hire 7,000 Border Patrol agents in the next 5 years (they've hired, like, 2, and have gobbled up $13.6 million in startup costs). As part of this story I found the quote:

"For us, in this country, we keep America safe by proper application of the law," a DHS official said in response to the IG report. "It's a law enforcement mission. It's not a military mission. It's a law enforcement mission."

It's the kind of thing I wish CNN would not do. There is no indication why this "official" wasn't named - nothing about fear of losing their job, for example - and as far as I can tell the quote was included because CNN really, really wanted to include this idea in their story, but no one would say it on the record.

So, also from that article: A Trump executive order in 2017 called for hiring 5,000 additional agents. In 2018 there was a net gain of 120 agents. So things aren't moving very swiftly. Under the "emergency," what wiggle room might Trump have? I know there's a statute, but it has been played around with some. If Trump can't deputize the military, could he militarize DHS? Either by simply asserting he has the power, or actually drafting some service members to officially join the Border Patrol?

Trump can use the same logic he used in declaring the emergency - announce that it's gonna happen but that Democrats will try to block it. Which, of course, they would. But would it only be Democrats trying? Who else might object?

The statute, enacted in brutal political battles related to Reconstruction, does not actually apply to Marines, the U.S. Navy or the Coast Guard. Based on minor Googling, I see that regulations do seem to include those branches of the service. But what if Marines or other service members were offered an alternative "deployment" on the U.S.-Mexico border? The pay is competitive and it seems to me it would be a fairly simple lateral move (although maybe nothing the feds do is simple). That would give Trump his agents under, I assume, the DHS budget. And lots of nice optics involving teargas, tasers or even lethal arms.

I guess my question is, if Trump can't deputize the military, could he militarize the DHS? As long as he's going for drama, he can ratchet it up to 11. I wonder if the military would balk, or the Senate, or if even some of his supporters might think enough is enough.

 

[Minoosh]

The thing that makes my heart sink when contemplating The Wall is just not that just because I don't like the message it sends, or that it's wasteful. It's that the border area is wild and largely arid, with some very sensitive lands, desert rivers, endangered species etc. Not just the wall itself but all the blading that would have to go into transporting materials to the job site would take a toll. It would scrape a lot of desert bare and threaten the Rio Grande. It also could be sabotaged on the other side, for scrap, or for smuggling, or to create a diversion. Which means a lot of heavy maintenance equipment. These areas do not just bounce back. And what takes longer: building something or tearing it down?

 

[Stacyhs]

For all you living along the border and experiencing the horrors of the brown invasion, lock up your wives and daughters, hide your sons from the forced drafting into the MS-13 gang, and bring in all pies cooling on window sills. I hope you stocked up on food, water and toilet paper before hunkering down. My thoughts and prayers and other platitudes are with you in these trying times.

 

[dudalb]

BOOM! Right there!

Not quite right. The US wrestled the Southwest from Mexico, not Spain.....

 

[dudalb]

Got an earful from some people at work today over the Legal problems with private lands.
I work for the Governement Agency that will be handles the acquisition of land by the federal government,and it's going to be a clusterf---. They ,basically, have been instructed to offer much less then the fair market value of the land that Public Domaine will be ran on, and, needless to say, the land owners will take them to court on it. (By law, the US Govenrment has to pay Fair Market value for the land they acquire).
It's another case of Trump's appointees in Interior trying to do something that people on the ground know is just plain stupid.A lot of lawyers are going to make a lot of money off of this....

 

[mgidm86]

So, how are you guys enjoying the hoards of armed Mexicans sweeping up through California and Texas?

Not good. Weapons are not the biggest problem though, but they use them getting the drugs here, and the cartels use them here daily although they probably get them in the US.

This is four years ago:

AUSTIN – The Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) today announced that Operation Drawbridge – the law enforcement initiative using motion-detection camera system along the Texas-Mexico border – was responsible for more than 29,300 apprehensions and 88,400 pounds of drugs being seized in 2014. These results represent a significant impact in the effort to combat Mexican cartel smuggling operations.

^^ That's just one year, one state. Ya I'd say it's a big problem.

Mexican cartels continue to pose the most significant organized crime threat to Texas. In fact, seven of the eight cartels currently have command and control networks operating in the state, moving drugs and people into the United States, and transporting cash, weapons and stolen vehicles back to Mexico.

Image of armed illegals in Texas (http://www.dps.texas.gov)

This isn't about smuggling guns. How many people die from Fentanyl, heroin and other smuggled drugs? How many are killed by the cartels?

How much is this costing us? 29,000 apprehensions in a single year in one state? That's gotta cost a helluva lot.

And by the way this $1.3x billion border money has severe limits. It specifies what kinds of barriers can and cannot be built (no new designs). It sets a cap on border manpower (already reached) so no new hiring.

Read the fine print and it's basically crap. Trump lost this deal big-time. And I don't agree with the national emergency strategy any more than I approved of Obama's shenanigans.

The Democrats are being ridiculous far as I'm concerned. Anything to go against Trump. This border thing makes that very clear.

I care about the border and national security. I don't care about Trump saving face, or the GOP, or the Dems or anyone else. I want this crap resolved.

I think he should not sign the bill. I don't think that 100%, just goin with it. Screw it at this point, he can't be hated any worse than he already is. I don't care if it looks bad to some people, it isn't about Trump. I want a more secure border. Now.

And for anyone who disagrees, please come down and visit our border area and towns and see for yourself.

6% of California's population are here illegally.
34% of working age people in Cali are immigrants.
About 25% of all immigrants live in California.
25% of all immigrants in Cali are illegal.

Almost half the people in Cali are immigrants, so that is a LOT of illegals. Millions. It's not like we aren't doing our share to support immigration here folks.

Our governor wants to give illegals free health care and gawd knows what else. Frack that! Our governor also used to be mayor of SF, the filthy homeless capital of the country. We have so many people we can't even take care of the ones that were actually born here, and we want to let millions more just walk in? Yes, Cali does want exactly that.

When politicians play games with national security like this it just shows how out of control they are. It's hard for me to believe this is even happening. I think the dems are being extremely hypocritical and petty and I am much more angry with them than the repubs, but neither side has done much about illegals, so I'm just all-around angry mostly.

 

[Lambchops]

Not good. Weapons are not the biggest problem though, but they use them getting the drugs here, and the cartels use them here daily although they probably get them in the US.

This is four years ago:




^^ That's just one year, one state. Ya I'd say it's a big problem.




Image of armed illegals in Texas (http://www.dps.texas.gov)

This isn't about smuggling guns. How many people die from Fentanyl, heroin and other smuggled drugs? How many are killed by the cartels?

How much is this costing us? 29,000 apprehensions in a single year in one state? That's gotta cost a helluva lot.

And by the way this $1.3x billion border money has severe limits. It specifies what kinds of barriers can and cannot be built (no new designs). It sets a cap on border manpower (already reached) so no new hiring.

Read the fine print and it's basically crap. Trump lost this deal big-time. And I don't agree with the national emergency strategy any more than I approved of Obama's shenanigans.

The Democrats are being ridiculous far as I'm concerned. Anything to go against Trump. This border thing makes that very clear.

I care about the border and national security. I don't care about Trump saving face, or the GOP, or the Dems or anyone else. I want this crap resolved.

I think he should not sign the bill. I don't think that 100%, just goin with it. Screw it at this point, he can't be hated any worse than he already is. I don't care if it looks bad to some people, it isn't about Trump. I want a more secure border. Now.

And for anyone who disagrees, please come down and visit our border area and towns and see for yourself.

6% of California's population are here illegally.
34% of working age people in Cali are immigrants.
About 25% of all immigrants live in California.
25% of all immigrants in Cali are illegal.

Almost half the people in Cali are immigrants, so that is a LOT of illegals. Millions. It's not like we aren't doing our share to support immigration here folks.

Our governor wants to give illegals free health care and gawd knows what else. Frack that! Our governor also used to be mayor of SF, the filthy homeless capital of the country. We have so many people we can't even take care of the ones that were actually born here, and we want to let millions more just walk in? Yes, Cali does want exactly that.

When politicians play games with national security like this it just shows how out of control they are. It's hard for me to believe this is even happening. I think the dems are being extremely hypocritical and petty and I am much more angry with them than the repubs, but neither side has done much about illegals, so I'm just all-around angry mostly.

2014 was five years ago.

 

[a_unique_person]

Not good. Weapons are not the biggest problem though, but they use them getting the drugs here, and the cartels use them here daily although they probably get them in the US.

This is four years ago:




^^ That's just one year, one state. Ya I'd say it's a big problem.




Image of armed illegals in Texas (http://www.dps.texas.gov)

This isn't about smuggling guns. How many people die from Fentanyl, heroin and other smuggled drugs? How many are killed by the cartels?

How much is this costing us? 29,000 apprehensions in a single year in one state? That's gotta cost a helluva lot.

And by the way this $1.3x billion border money has severe limits. It specifies what kinds of barriers can and cannot be built (no new designs). It sets a cap on border manpower (already reached) so no new hiring.

Read the fine print and it's basically crap. Trump lost this deal big-time. And I don't agree with the national emergency strategy any more than I approved of Obama's shenanigans.

The Democrats are being ridiculous far as I'm concerned. Anything to go against Trump. This border thing makes that very clear.

I care about the border and national security. I don't care about Trump saving face, or the GOP, or the Dems or anyone else. I want this crap resolved.

I think he should not sign the bill. I don't think that 100%, just goin with it. Screw it at this point, he can't be hated any worse than he already is. I don't care if it looks bad to some people, it isn't about Trump. I want a more secure border. Now.

And for anyone who disagrees, please come down and visit our border area and towns and see for yourself.

6% of California's population are here illegally.
34% of working age people in Cali are immigrants.
About 25% of all immigrants live in California.
25% of all immigrants in Cali are illegal.

Almost half the people in Cali are immigrants, so that is a LOT of illegals. Millions. It's not like we aren't doing our share to support immigration here folks.

Our governor wants to give illegals free health care and gawd knows what else. Frack that! Our governor also used to be mayor of SF, the filthy homeless capital of the country. We have so many people we can't even take care of the ones that were actually born here, and we want to let millions more just walk in? Yes, Cali does want exactly that.

When politicians play games with national security like this it just shows how out of control they are. It's hard for me to believe this is even happening. I think the dems are being extremely hypocritical and petty and I am much more angry with them than the repubs, but neither side has done much about illegals, so I'm just all-around angry mostly.

The only reason they are supplying is that people are buying.

 

[Tero]

I listened to Trump for about 5 min live. Rare for me. The scripted part read OK. But somehow, I got the feel he is more stupid now. Is he losing it?

 

[Apathia]

Not quite right. The US wrestled the Southwest from Mexico, not Spain.....

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Just checking in to let the forum know I am safe and okay during this national emergency.

This is why, try as I may, I can't quit this place.

 

[smartcooky]

Not quite right. The US wrestled the Southwest from Mexico, not Spain.....

A technicality; It doesn't rally detract from the overall point Apathia was making

Spain ruled Mexico until 1821 and it was only 12 year later that Santa Anna came to power, and another couple of years before the Texas Uprising.

 

[Minoosh]

And by the way this $1.3x billion border money has severe limits. It specifies what kinds of barriers can and cannot be built (no new designs). It sets a cap on border manpower (already reached) so no new hiring.

You kidding? Trump ordered 7,000 new Border Patrol. Since then they're up 120 positions. They've had a hard time filling these vacancies for years, and if this has been signed away by Trump I'd like to see evidence.

And for anyone who disagrees, please come down and visit our border area and towns and see for yourself.

6% of California's population are here illegally.
34% of working age people in Cali are immigrants.
About 25% of all immigrants live in California.
25% of all immigrants in Cali are illegal.

Almost half the people in Cali are immigrants, so that is a LOT of illegals. Millions. It's not like we aren't doing our share to support immigration here folks.

Did someone promise to maintain demographics so you would be able to pick your neighbors? That seems to account for at least half your complaints, which are about immigrants in general, not illegal immigrants.

They're free people using legal means to improve their lives. It's not my call.

I think the dems are being extremely hypocritical and petty and I am much more angry with them than the repubs, but neither side has done much about illegals, so I'm just all-around angry mostly.

Yeah, I can tell.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I listened to Trump for about 5 min live. Rare for me. The scripted part read OK. But somehow, I got the feel he is more stupid now. Is he losing it?

Actually, I thought I'd take one for the team and listen through the scripted (for certain meanings of that word) portion, only to turn it off before his stellar moments with the press. What astonished me is that even with Fox having pointed out some of the more blatant lies, he just goes into his Gish Gallop and repeats them.

But he's generous enough to make up new crap every time he gives a speech so the entire canned portion of his presentation really reads like sound bytes from his various rallies and pressers. Here's the story about the secret knowledge he has about all the people driving to the ends of the barrier to just walk across (calves the size of cantaloupes, right Steve?). And the story of the women with duck tape across their mouths and their hands bound. Oooh, and the massive shootout just a mile (from the border) from where he just visited. (He just visited McAllen, 130 miles from said shootout in a direct line - more like 175 miles by highway).

I was watching... he rarely looked down for crib notes. He just trots out the lies he's familiar with because he constantly repeats them.

I do like the fact that he just showed the entire public that he's sure "the fix is in" at the Supreme Court. If there was ever a reason to run the Republicans, en masse, out of office, that little tidbit was it. It should be feature in every Democratic Party advert.

 

[Tero]

Huh OK. He continues as before, no change in status.

 

[smartcooky]

Not good. Weapons are not the biggest problem though, but they use them getting the drugs here, and the cartels use them here daily although they probably get them in the US.

AUSTIN – The Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) today announced that Operation Drawbridge – the law enforcement initiative using motion-detection camera system along the Texas-Mexico border – was responsible for more than 29,300 apprehensions and 88,400 pounds of drugs being seized in 2014. These results represent a significant impact in the effort to combat Mexican cartel smuggling operations.

Quote:
Mexican cartels continue to pose the most significant organized crime threat to Texas. In fact, seven of the eight cartels currently have command and control networks operating in the state, moving drugs and people into the United States, and transporting cash, weapons and stolen vehicles back to Mexico.

This isn't about smuggling guns. How many people die from Fentanyl, heroin and other smuggled drugs? How many are killed by the cartels?

How much is this costing us? 29,000 apprehensions in a single year in one state? That's gotta cost a helluva lot.

And by the way this $1.3x billion border money has severe limits. It specifies what kinds of barriers can and cannot be built (no new designs). It sets a cap on border manpower (already reached) so no new hiring.

Read the fine print and it's basically crap. Trump lost this deal big-time. And I don't agree with the national emergency strategy any more than I approved of Obama's shenanigans.

The Democrats are being ridiculous far as I'm concerned. Anything to go against Trump. This border thing makes that very clear.

I care about the border and national security. I don't care about Trump saving face, or the GOP, or the Dems or anyone else. I want this crap resolved.

I think he should not sign the bill. I don't think that 100%, just goin with it. Screw it at this point, he can't be hated any worse than he already is. I don't care if it looks bad to some people, it isn't about Trump. I want a more secure border. Now.

And for anyone who disagrees, please come down and visit our border area and towns and see for yourself.
<ireelevancies snipped>

First Point: you STILL don't get that fact the the vast majority of of drugs get into the USA THROUGH THE PORTS OF ENTRY! A WALL WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP THIS

Second Point: Trump's vanity project would spend 90% of the border security budget in an attempt to fix less than 10% of the problem, meanwhile, the place where 90% of the problems are gets cuts and lacks resources.

Third Point: All of your stats are five years out of date. Mexican border crossings are at their lowest level since the 1950s!

Only the blind and the stupid are in favour of Trump's wall

 

[Warmer1]

This is historic really. The President just stood up and told the same multiple debunked lies to Americans in order to circumvent the democratic process and there is no huge uproar.
This is a huge test to see what Trump can get away with on his path to a dictatorship.

Republicans are so happy with the payoffs they are getting as a result of the 1.5 TRILLION dollar tax cut that Trump has given their donors. Would it surprise anyone if Republicans stood back as usual and allowed Trump to continue his power grab?

Americans are standing by as their democracy is under attack, as a perpetual liar with narcissistic personality disorder cons the masses with the help of Fox News.

The national emergency is that far to many Americans don't want to learn what is going on and a huge percentage can't tell fact from fiction.

This is a historic event for me. Trump's speech about his conjured up national emergency was a horrific display of his ego driven mental illness and Republicans are in support of this undermining of democracy.

The Republican party stands by Trump's outright lies and American democracy is being tested like never before. I'm doing a lot of traveling at the moment and the overwhelming majority of people I meet are in a sad state of disbelief about the state of American politics. Trump will go down in history as the biggest conman and liar in American history. Sadly, average Americans have no idea how much this is costing them as the national debt soars.