Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

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Darat said:
Just heard Mogg says he will of course support the government in the vote of no confidence.... You couldn't make him up.
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No surprise there, and the DUP will presumably also support May. Why ruffle the magic money tree and give Corbyn a chance at No. 10, when they can lean back and keep the squeeze on May for 3-and-a-bit years?
 
KDLarsen said:
No surprise there, and the DUP will presumably also support May. Why ruffle the magic money tree and give Corbyn a chance at No. 10, when they can lean back and keep the squeeze on May for 3-and-a-bit years?
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If a no-Brexit happens, won't that mean a hard border between RoI and NI? Isn't that exactly what the DUP is really really against?
 
lobosrul5 said:
If a no-Brexit happens, won't that mean a hard border between RoI and NI? Isn't that exactly what the DUP is really really against?
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Indeed, but all of them also voted against May's deal. A quick google gave nothing specific about what their proposed alternative is, other than some word waffle about "assurances that specific measures would be put in place to ensure no return to a hard Border."
 
lobosrul5 said:
If a no-Brexit happens, won't that mean a hard border between RoI and NI? Isn't that exactly what the DUP is really really against?
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KDLarsen said:
Indeed, but all of them also voted against May's deal. A quick google gave nothing specific about what their proposed alternative is, other than some word waffle about "assurances that specific measures would be put in place to ensure no return to a hard Border."
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I think you'll find a hard border, and preferably a great big wall, is exactly what the DUP want between the Republic and Northern Ireland. They just won't say it openly.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The amendment was introduced by a Labour MP but opposed by the Labour Government. How did it get passed?
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I imagine that the Tories voted in favor of it, just as they probably voted against the whole referendum bill, but lost.
The Labour government was also dissolved shortly after the vote and Maggie took over. And she ignored the result of the referendum which was not to reject devolution but was in favour of devolution.
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No she didn’t. The rules of the referendum were that at least 40% of the electorate had to be in favor of devolution. The actual result was about 33% in favor, about 30% against and about 37% couldn’t be arsed to vote.

In any case, by the time the Tories came to power, the Labour government had already killed the devolution bill because of the referendium result.

The Tories have consistently been against devolution for the constituent parts of the UK regardless of results in referenda. So to suggest otherwise is simply dishonest.
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Of course they have. Their full name is The Conservative and Unionist Party. I will not hold that against them. I’m dead against Brexit even though the second referendum went against it.

It’s somewhat ironic, though, that their actions with respect to holding the second referendum and buggering up everything they have done since then will probably lead to the break up of the Union.
 
Darat said:
Just checked and yet again I've confirmed that neither Scotland nor NI had a referendum, it was a UK referendum.
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Indeed, but since all four parts of the UK have devolved government to one extent or another, it is correct to point out they can act in their own interests. The DUP and SNP have had a major say in what has happened so far.
 
Nessie said:
Indeed, but since all four parts of the UK have devolved government to one extent or another, it is correct to point out they can act in their own interests. The DUP and SNP have had a major say in what has happened so far.
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Not in the matter of EU membership, that is not a matter devolved. We can carve the UK up in many different ways in regards to the voting of the people of the UK.
 
Have another Leave/Remain referendum, but allow all Brits, including those who haven't lived in the UK in the last 15 years to vote.
The result will be unambiguous.
 
Darat said:
Not in the matter of EU membership, that is not a matter devolved. We can carve the UK up in many different ways in regards to the voting of the people of the UK.
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In terms of governments, as the SNP point out, they represent Scotland and Scotland voted to remain. That makes for a very legitimate reason, politically, legally and morally, for the SNP to do everything possible to stop Brexit.
 
KDLarsen said:
Indeed, but all of them also voted against May's deal. A quick google gave nothing specific about what their proposed alternative is, other than some word waffle about "assurances that specific measures would be put in place to ensure no return to a hard Border."
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I think they are just waiting for a better alternative.
 
jeremyp said:
Why? Nobody wants a Norway type deal. A Norway deal is the same as being in the EU except without having as much say in EU laws.
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An opinion poll on the various options;

https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/change-britain-poll-dec18/

Canada type deal 29%
Norway type deal 21%
Customs only union 19%
UK to stay full member of EU 17%
Hard brexit no deal 15%

But, 50% are also against May's deal and 35% are for it. Basically, the British public want a new deal, but have no agreement on what it should be.
 
p0lka said:
I think they are just waiting for a better alternative.
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There is no UK consensus at all on what constitutes a better deal. That means it is pretty much impossible to get a better deal. Any other deal would just be a different deal, with lots of people either for or against it.
 
Well, two things are fairly clear:
Tomorrow there will be a motion of no confidence, which I suspect the Government will win.

And on friday at the latest, May will have to present her plan B for what is going to happen next.
 
KDLarsen said:
Well, two things are fairly clear:
Tomorrow there will be a motion of no confidence, which I suspect the Government will win.

And on friday at the latest, May will have to present her plan B for what is going to happen next.
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"Plan B" is either B1 leave with no deal, or B2 ask the EU for an extension to think up a new deal or B3 discuss another referendum. I doubt Parliament can reach any sort of agreement on that. I think B2 is most likely at the moment.
 
Nessie said:
"Plan B" is either B1 leave with no deal, or B2 ask the EU for an extension to think up a new deal or B3 discuss another referendum. I doubt Parliament can reach any sort of agreement on that. I think B2 is most likely at the moment.
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Andrew Neill on BBC News interviewing Health Secretary Matt Hancock managed to glean out of him that the Plan B will be a repeat of Plan A.
 
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