Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

lomiller said:
Do you have evidence, or even anecdotes to back up this claim Eg. Can you give us some examples where a government has rounded up “undesirables” without many of those undesirables ending up dead.
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We did it once and just enslaved them.

And now I've made myself sad.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Broadly it is a tactic for some forms of ethnic cleansing. But that isn't genocide so no problem. Like when the jews were fleeing germany in 1938, the holocaust hadn't started yet so we were right to send them back to end up in the gas chambers. Conservatism 101.
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Maybe this is what's going on: you take a word like "genocide" (or racism), change the definition until enough people agree that genocide is happening, then change it back to its original definition.

It's all about playing on emotion because logic and reason fail.

If you value borders and don't want ICE abolished you are now promoting genocide. Label and shame - Liberalism 101.

Illegals are now called undocumented. Fire and police = first responders. Gold Star family. MS-13 gang members are now Dreamers. A secure boder is now genocide. Sure feeeeeelz good!
 
Can you give us some examples where a government has rounded up “undesirables” without many of those undesirables ending up dead.
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carlitos said:
The Japanese internment camps closed after WWII.
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Silly Green Monkey said:
Did they or the Italians evicted from California ever get their lives back?
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You'd need to be more specific. I haven't really researched it, but Italian- or Japanese-Americans don't seem to be an underclass these days. In any case, they ended up dead but only of natural causes, it seems.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Broadly it is a tactic for some forms of ethnic cleansing. But that isn't genocide so no problem. Like when the jews were fleeing germany in 1938, the holocaust hadn't started yet so we were right to send them back to end up in the gas chambers. Conservatism 101.
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No, forcibly taking children from parents with the intent of destroying a people or culture is genocide, as per the UN.

The only difference here is that the stated intent is to punish the adults - the trauma caused to the children is either unimportant, or a benefit, I wouldn't put either past Dolt 45, and strongly suspect that it's Stephen Miller's intention.
 
And now the Border Patrol murdered a seven year old girl. Cruelly denied her water and medical attention until she was dead. They probably laughed and laughed as she suffered. Monsters.
 
Travis said:
And now the Border Patrol murdered a seven year old girl. Cruelly denied her water and medical attention until she was dead. They probably laughed and laughed as she suffered. Monsters.
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I'm not prepared to pass judgment on the Border Patrol without further details, but there definitely needs to be a full, independent investigation to determine what exactly went wrong here. CPB is claiming that girl was without food and water for "several days" before being taken into custody and that she "had access" to food and water at the Antelope Wells facility. They're also claiming that no one (including the father accompanying her) noted any medical problems at the time of the initial arrest. All of that needs to be confirmed or refuted independently.
At this point, it's not entirely clear from the news reports I've seen whether the CPB was abusive, negligent or just too late to correct damage done by an abusive parent.
 
Travis said:
And now the Border Patrol murdered a seven year old girl. Cruelly denied her water and medical attention until she was dead. They probably laughed and laughed as she suffered. Monsters.
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You sure live in a scary world, full of big, bad conservative monsters.

The story on NPR last night did not make it sound obvious the Border Patrol was grossly negligent. It sounds like when the distress was made clear to them, they were in an inaccessible area and had few options.

Now, maybe this is wrong. Maybe they could have gotten a medevac copter in or something. I don't know. But this ******** that Border Patrol is so evil that they laugh at the death of a child has to stop. You are dehumanizing Border Patrol, just the same way as Trump dehumanized the caravan.

You're not really any different than Trump. Set up the most monstrous straw man you can and decry how evil the opposition is. The difference is just who your enemy is (and, of course, your lack of power compared to POTUS), but not in how you see--or at least present--the world.
 
Travis said:
And now the Border Patrol murdered a seven year old girl. Cruelly denied her water and medical attention until she was dead. They probably laughed and laughed as she suffered. Monsters.
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The girl in question was flown by helicopter to a hospital. How on earth can you categorize that as being denied medical attention?

This is well past the point of you simply being confused about events. The only reasonable interpretation left is that you're deliberately lying about stuff. The only question is why. Is your personal life really so meaningless that this is how you get your kicks?
 
phiwum said:
Now, maybe this is wrong. Maybe they could have gotten a medevac copter in or something. I don't know. But this ******** that Border Patrol is so evil that they laugh at the death of a child has to stop. You are dehumanizing Border Patrol, just the same way as Trump dehumanized the caravan.
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To be fair, the Border Patrol hasn't gone out of their way to humanize themselves in this situation, and these days I'm not inclined to extend the benefit of the doubt to people whose defense is producing an english-language form signed by a non-english speaker. I doubt it was outright malice, probably just negligence. The father didn't speak up sooner because he'd never see his daughter again, and the agents just weren't looking that closely.
 
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https://twitter.com/danielradosh/status/1073729261041790976

GOP: Well maybe you shouldn’t have broken the law if you didn’t want your 7-year-old to die!

Also GOP: It would be outrageous to ruin a man’s presidency over a few minor felonies!
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https://www.newstatesman.com/world/...sponse-death-7-year-old-border-patrol-custody

The death of a young child in government custody is horrifying and tragic, but the Trump administration’s response has also been chilling. Asked by a reporter if the administration was taking any responsibility for the girl’s death, the White House spokesman said “does the administration take responsibility for a parent taking a child on a trek through Mexico to get to this country? No.”

First, the administration is partly responsible for the father’s decision to take his child on a dangerous journey across the border. Migrants routinely report that they attempted to enter the US at an official border and were turned away, forced to either wait at the border indefinitely, return to the danger and hardship they fled or attempt a riskier, unofficial crossing.

The desperation experienced by many migrants is so great that Trump’s stricter border policies are not an effective deterrent. Instead, the threat of arrest, summary deportations and family separations push people to attempt more dangerous crossings. This would help explain why last year the number of people killed attempting to cross the US-Mexico border rose even as overall crossings fell.

[...]

[CBP]’s internal guidelines also specify that children must have constant access to fresh drinking water, must be presented with a snack upon arrival, regular meals, juice and milk. Migrants and immigration journalists report that this is rarely the case.

“When migrants first cross the border, they are almost always brought to hieleras — “ice boxes” with frigid temperatures where people are kept for days sleeping on concrete floors, drinking putrid water, receiving scant provisions… Our clients have described the hieleras as among the most traumatic part of the immigration system,” said Ryan of RAICES.

The CBP officials said that when the child first arrived at the organisation’s remote forward operating base at 10pm on 6 December, she and the other migrants held there had access to water. The border patrol agents reportedly screened her visually for any obvious medical conditions and cleared her, and the father signed a form attesting that she was medically fine. (The form was in English.) There were no medical staff on site, and only four agents present.

The CBP told the Washington Post that the girl had “reportedly not eaten or consumed water for several days”. It is not clear if she had water or anything to eat at the forward operating base. At 4am, she was transported with her father by bus to a border patrol station.

When I asked a doctor (who declined to be named) how likely it is that a child would present no medical symptoms just eight hours before her temperature reached 105.7, she said that some conditions such as sepsis or meningitis can indeed present like that. Someone without medical training might also not be able to identify signs of dehydration: “She would probably have just looked exhausted, quiet or scared”. But, crucially, the doctor added that “anyone with a bone of common sense would know that a young child without food or water for days would need medical attention.”
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Beelzebuddy said:
To be fair, the Border Patrol hasn't gone out of their way to humanize themselves in this situation, and these days I'm not inclined to extend the benefit of the doubt to people whose defense is producing an english-language form signed by a non-english speaker. I doubt it was outright malice, probably just negligence. The father didn't speak up sooner because he'd never see his daughter again, and the agents just weren't looking that closely.
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The border patrol deserves scrutiny over this matter and other things. But Travis went way overboard suggesting that agents laughed at the suffering and death of a little girl.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
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First, the administration is partly responsible for the father’s decision to take his child on a dangerous journey across the border. Migrants routinely report that they attempted to enter the US at an official border and were turned away, forced to either wait at the border indefinitely, return to the danger and hardship they fled or attempt a riskier, unofficial crossing.
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No. The administration is not partly responsible for the father's decision. That is asinine.

That entire quote/article is bullcrap. All these rules we are supposed to abide by so that hundreds and thousands of people can attempt to break into our country illegally and safely. That's pretty back-asswards.

"Oh my gawd! Look at the conditions! No Playstation!!" How the hell is that our fault? He brought her across a desert! People want us to have border patrol, water fountains and amenities at every corner? I thought we wanted to abolish ICE and de-fund this stuff. Which is it?

Many of these people are crossing multiple countries to get to the USA. That is not how asylum works. These people refused help from Mexico when it was offered. No, they want to come here.

The only fault of ours is that we let the problem get so big because we've done nothing about it. These poor people are just pawns in a big political game.

They are being exploited by everyone: those who promise asylum illegally, those who hire them, those who give them driver's licenses, and those of you who want your cheap veggies. You're being conned. Wake up people.
 
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The head of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has called the death of a 7-year-old Guatemalan girl in Department of Homeland Security custody “preventable” and called for pediatricians to have oversight of detention centers that hold migrant children.

Dr. Colleen Kraft says the Dec. 8 death of Jackeline Caal is part of a broader failure to meet children’s basic needs that has characterized the Department of Homeland Security’s interaction with young people detained at the U.S.-Mexico border.

“We will not stop asking questions until we learn more about the circumstances of this girl’s death, so we can understand what happened to her and how to make sure it never happens again,” Kraft tells TIME.

Kraft says pediatricians who have visited DHS processing facilities that hold children have been alarmed by the conditions they have found. “These children are not given the basic needs of food and water and medical care,” she says.
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Linky.
 
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