Cont: Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator Part 3

[Red Baron Farms]

IF Hydrinos were real I would expect to see something like this. An initial strong scepticism and denial. Then a discussion on the merit of Hydrinos and after that a slow increase in acceptance as confirmatory research starts to appear. And then when critical mass is reached it would be generally accepted.

That is exactly the same reactions many people here have had with my Global Warming mitigation plan.

But what do we see with hydrinos? An initial interest from outside groups and then nothing.

Because the Emperor has no clothes.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Who the hell needs an explanation? It's been 24 years, stick the damn thing in a boiler and make some steam!

Don't even need steam. Just a few degrees increase can do wonders.

For example: Just 6-8 feet under the ground on most the temporate parts of the globe is soil that stays year round in the range of 50-60 degrees F +/-

And to heat a greenhouse with this geothermal heat is the simplest thing in the world. Just bury a tube about 8 to 10 feet down long enough to pick up the surrounding temperature and blow this air into the greenhouse. The sun helps with passive solar. Between the two you can grow citrus in Nebraska if you so desire.



This is an example of someone taking an alternative energy source and potentially benefiting society.

Huge difference between that and Mills stealing money to make expensive light bulbs.

That retired old man has actually accomplished infinitely more than Mills ever will.

 

[bruto]

I approach this not as a proper scientist, which I'm certainly not, but as a skeptical tinkerer, and I was thinking recently about the failure of religion, when it occurred to me that this is not all that different. My basic theory is that after a certain length of time it matters less and less whether the theory is true or not. If you can't get results, it does not matter whether the theory is true, or noble, or beautiful. The experiment itself has failed.

Here we have a bit the same thing. Does it matter any more whether the elusive hydrino is real? Perhaps not. It's clear that the only people touting it are not able to achieve useful results, either commercially or scientifically, beyond making a living for themselves. If they were real scientists, and actually believed hydrinos are real, they'd throw their work open to scrutiny and let science do its work. They might have to settle for a Nobel prize instead of the untold riches of commercial success, but it's clear they'll get neither because, whether hydrinos exist or not, they themselves are incompetent. Their experiments are a failure.

 

[Reality Check]

Why? One might ask why it was that Helium was doubted to exist even ten years after it's discovery. See https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...ed-helium-first-alien-element-1868-180970057/

Really simple answer, markie, that you have been told many times.
Sceince needs convincing empirical evidence before the scientific community accepts that evidence is correct. What makes experimental results convincing is independent replication. That is a tiny part of what makes Mill's hydrino into a delusion.

How Scientists Discovered Helium, the First Alien Element, 150 Years Ago
August 18, 1868: Janssen makes the first observation of the solar spectrum that happened to include helium. He tells the Academy of Sciences. At the same time results arrive from English astronomer Norman Lockyer about a similar observation. They share the credit. That is the successful replication of an experiment to be repeated millions of times to the modern day.
What you highlight is the first failure to find the helium spectrum in the lab. That was done in 1882.

We have had over 150 years of spectroscopic analysis of hydrogen. That is a large part of what makes Mill's hydrino into a delusion.

 

[markie]

Then they will have unique, observable, spectral lines.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

We've been over this before. Or are you trying to be cute. Raman spectroscopy measuring rotational and vibrational energies of molecules is very different than absorption and emission spectroscopy from electronic orbital transitions, which is clearly the context of what I was referring to. Dihydrino can't be measured with the latter.

You could always examine Mills' papers where dihydrino is identified with Raman spectroscopy and give us your critique. That might be productive.

 

[markie]

Mills is known to have lied about his business. His business modus operandi is shady. His theory is not accepted anywhere outside his inner circle. And he has not produced a single tangible thing, only promises. And yet you expect me to give him the benefit of the doubt? He lost my trust the first time he lied. After that his word is ash. But actions speaks loader then words, but there is no action, is there? 30 frigging years of no action!!

In Mills case I would say that the scientific culture is working as intended. In the start his ideas got a look into. There was nothing there and the interest waned and died.

"The first time he lied." Lied about what. I suppose you mean being overconfident in timeline forecasts. Otherwise, let's have it.
"30 frigging years of no action!!" Mills has accomplished more in one year than you or I have in ten.

 

[markie]

Because that's how science works. You'll notice in that story you posted that the common thread is that the scientists accepted what the evidence showed to be true, and that there was lots of independent verification.

So this doesn't really support your theory that scientists ridicule Mills because they're scared of the truth. Instead it supports what everybody else is saying - that if there were replicable results, then people would be convinced by them. And that is all ignoring the fact that you finished your quote just before the article started talking about those who did believe it when it was announced because they saw the evidence for themselves, and that this example is the best you could come up with and even then it's only 10 years before it was completely accepted by everybody.

So this doesn't really support your theory that scientists ridicule Mills because they're scared of the truth.

When has that ever been my 'theory'. Take Robert Park, one of the few that have 'ridiculed' Mills and in a rather passive aggressive way I might add. Is he 'scared of the truth'? Hardly. He is just convinced he knows it, and Mills doesn't.

 

[markie]

One more for hugs: lots (but not all) of what markie has posted these last few days has been posted here (or in a predecessor thread) before. Some of us who’ve been around this carousel before have stopped repeating ourselves in rebuttal; in one sense, markie is mimicking Mills: wash, rinse, repeat.

Interesting though, not much attempt to defend Mills in terms of his Nobel Prize deserving “theory” ... for those of us who’ve looked carefully at it, it’s crackpot nonsense, deeply flawed by its internal inconsistencies.

So that leaves just the experimental tests, and the wildly incredible observational inconsistencies; strange that markie focuses on the former and ignores the latter.

Oh, and he’s oddly silent on the health and environmental impacts of the many kilograms of hydrinos Mills has let escape from his lab in NJ ... it’s almost as if he believes there’s nothing to worry about ... because there are no hydrinos!

What is the environmental impact of hydrogen gas? Even less so for dihydrino. About Mills' theory ; you apparently can't even show how he correctly calculates the ionization energy for each electron for elements up to Z = 20. So much for having "looked carefully".

 

[markie]

It is personal with me, the same as when woo artists claim to psychic heal cancer and prey on those who are sick and desperate. All forms of fraud are stealing from those deserving. A lose lose for EVERYONE. Even you Markie. That;s right, even you lose when Mills successfully steals research money. It is just like stealing from legit alternative energy research making us all poorer.

Oh and PS
Mills can never succeed because hydrinos don't exist. His only chance to ever do anything meaningful in his whole life is drop the whole thing and start over trying to develope something that is actually real and might potentially advance human knowledge. Maybe in the field of medicine? Otherwise Mill's entire life becomes a sad waste of time, energy and a good mind. shameful

Money going into alternative energy is generally money well spent and is also sadly a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money going into WallStreet financiers and the coffers of US corporations profiting from war.

 

[markie]

I approach this not as a proper scientist, which I'm certainly not, but as a skeptical tinkerer, and I was thinking recently about the failure of religion, when it occurred to me that this is not all that different. My basic theory is that after a certain length of time it matters less and less whether the theory is true or not. If you can't get results, it does not matter whether the theory is true, or noble, or beautiful. The experiment itself has failed.

Here we have a bit the same thing. Does it matter any more whether the elusive hydrino is real? Perhaps not. It's clear that the only people touting it are not able to achieve useful results, either commercially or scientifically, beyond making a living for themselves. If they were real scientists, and actually believed hydrinos are real, they'd throw their work open to scrutiny and let science do its work. They might have to settle for a Nobel prize instead of the untold riches of commercial success, but it's clear they'll get neither because, whether hydrinos exist or not, they themselves are incompetent. Their experiments are a failure.

Mills and others have published dozens and dozens of papers of experimental results regarding hydrino. So why would you think their work isn't open to scrutiny. The problem is that the culture of science today is not up to the task of responding to hydrino claims in a rational way.

 

[markie]

Really simple answer, markie, that you have been told many times.
Sceince needs convincing empirical evidence before the scientific community accepts that evidence is correct. What makes experimental results convincing is independent replication. That is a tiny part of what makes Mill's hydrino into a delusion.

How Scientists Discovered Helium, the First Alien Element, 150 Years Ago
August 18, 1868: Janssen makes the first observation of the solar spectrum that happened to include helium. He tells the Academy of Sciences. At the same time results arrive from English astronomer Norman Lockyer about a similar observation. They share the credit. That is the successful replication of an experiment to be repeated millions of times to the modern day.
What you highlight is the first failure to find the helium spectrum in the lab. That was done in 1882.

We have had over 150 years of spectroscopic analysis of hydrogen. That is a large part of what makes Mill's hydrino into a delusion.

RC, you have a Masters in physics if I recall. Have you looked carefully at the various methods used by Mills and others to identity hydrino in the lab? Are you able to intelligently critique those papers? Let's have it.

 

[jadebox]

RC, you have a Masters in physics if I recall. Have you looked carefully at the various methods used by Mills and others to identity hydrino in the lab? Are you able to intelligently critique those papers? Let's have it.

RC and others have intelligently critiqued those papers in this thread. The methods used to allegedly identify hydrinos don't hold up to scrutiny. That's old news. If you are going to convince us that hydrinos are real, you are going to need better evidence.

 

[LTC8K6]

Don't forget the Mills claim of having lots of "Hydrino-based Crystals" on the shelf.

"Everyone was telling us that heat was too nebulous," Dr. Mills said. To put his work on more solid ground, he manufactured hydrino-based crystals
in mass, he said. "The hydride ion cracked the nut, right there, that did it," he said. BlackLight Power's laboratory cabinets are stacked with vials of crystals of varied colors and forms. Other scientists have been supportive. On the BlackLight Power board sits Dr. Shelby Brewer, a nuclear engineer and physicist who is also the former chief executive of ABB Combustion Engineering and an assistant secretary in the U.S. Department of Energy from 1981 to 1984. Dr. Melvin H. Miles, an electro-chemist researching batteries at the U.S. Navy facility in China Lake, Calif., said the BlackLight crystals put Dr. Mills "way ahead of cold fusion in that he has a tangible product to show people."

That claim is from 1999. Coming up on 20 years ago.

Today I would venture to guess that we still have no idea what a "Hydrino-based Crystal" is supposed to be.

 

[hgus]

"The first time he lied." Lied about what. I suppose you mean being overconfident in timeline forecasts. Otherwise, let's have it.

We had this discussion before remember, the tenses matter. When Mills claims to have done something that he has not, it is a lie. It is not a forecast, it is a statement of past events. Your claim that he is optimistic, overconfident or 'forward thinking' is simply whitewashing. You could say that he is just very careless with his language, but that does not make it any less of a lie.

"30 frigging years of no action!!" Mills has accomplished more in one year than you or I have in ten.

If you referring to accepted science or a working product you are probably incorrect. I have done zero of that and zero times ten equals zero. That means for you to be correct, Mills will have to have done more than zero and he has not.

If you mean any accomplishment than you are into some real hero-worship.

 

[hgus]

Mills and others have published dozens and dozens of papers of experimental results regarding hydrino. So why would you think their work isn't open to scrutiny. The problem is that the culture of science today is not up to the task of responding to hydrino claims in a rational way.

Why is it not?

 

[Dancing David]

Why? One might ask why it was that Helium was doubted to exist even ten years after it's discovery. See https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...ed-helium-first-alien-element-1868-180970057/

(my bold)

Seeking proof to back up the claim that he’d helped discover a new element, Lockyer went to English chemist Edward Frankland to attempt to reproduce the wavelength pattern in the lab. Frankland theorized it might be caused by hydrogen under extreme temperature and pressure, but they were unsuccessful in their attempts to recreate it.

The skepticism over the possibility of an element existing in space but not on Earth is perhaps no surprise, given that it was the first of its kind. Science historians James L. Marshall and Virginia R. Marshall write, “Frankland, perhaps cautious because of the many erroneous ‘newly discovered elements’ arising from the high resolution spectra now available, maintained that he did not want to have his name associated with this imaginary element,” even after Lockyer went public, dubbing it “Helium,” after the Greek name for the sun.


Now, imagine if helium did not have discrete spectral lines at all. How long would it have taken to discover it? Then it would have akin to hydrino: very small, inert, not detectable by spectral lines, and escaping rapidly to space. But there would have been a glaring vacancy in the periodic table for Z = 2 and an active search would have been on. No so with the hydrino. No one would be looking for it. It would take someone like Mills. When one considers the methods Mills uses to both produce and detect hydrino, no one is going to find it unless he is actively looking for it.

Except for one thing Markie, the hydrogen atom falling to the hydrino state and the hydrino state moving to the hydrogen state would create spectral lines.

 

[Dancing David]

Different kind. You won't be able to heat this and see discrete lines like you can with ordinary compounds.

Are you saying that the electron moving to the hydrino state does not do so in a quantum fashion?
Otherwise the difference in energy will always be the same, and therefore create discrete spectral lines or absorption.

Mills is also violating QM?

 

[Reality Check]

RC, you have a Masters in physics if I recall....

A lapse in memory and learning, markie
Physics is a very big field so people specialize. That is yet another reason that Mill's experiment are dubious. He is a medical doctor with some physics courses. NO sign of his employees having expertise in the relevant physics. Anyone with a few brain cells can see that his hydrinos are delusional which makes his experiments not even wrong.

I have a MSc. in theoretical solid state physics. A theoretical physicist learns general experimental methodology. My last course in experimental physics was a third year experimental techniques and data analysis course.

I do not need to look at Mills experiments when experts have already done that as you know !
For example, years up to maybe 2008 of incompetent use of instruments to see his "hydrino signature" in instrument noise!

 

[JeanTate]

We've been over this before. Or are you trying to be cute. Raman spectroscopy measuring rotational and vibrational energies of molecules is very different than absorption and emission spectroscopy from electronic orbital transitions, which is clearly the context of what I was referring to. Dihydrino can't be measured with the latter.

You could always examine Mills' papers where dihydrino is identified with Raman spectroscopy and give us your critique. That might be productive.

It might be productive for you to learn about the physics of how molecules, as they rotate and vibrate, generate electromagnetic radiation. And to learn how spectroscopy works, whether Raman or otherwise.

But yes, we have been over this before, and you're repeating the same - erroneous - claims as you did earlier.

 

[Reality Check]

Have you looked carefully at the various methods used by Mills and others to identity hydrino in the lab?

More parroting of the lie that Mills and others have identified hydrinos in the lab, markie.
No one has ever found a confirmed, unique fingerprint of Mills hydrino delusion in the lab. Mills and his employees churning out pseudoscience papers is not detection of his hydrinos. Companies falling for his fantasies and wasting time and money producing nothing is not detection of his hydrinos. People being paid to run his experiment usually at his company using his apparatus and employees is not detection of his hydrinos.