Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Ah, I think I understand the problem. Elizabeth Warren has about 1/32 Native American DNA.

Trump supporters tend to have ancestors that have um... conserved their family DNA more than usual, so that would be closer to 16 generations for them, not six.

However TBD - for people with a conventional number of different grandparents, 1/32 is about two ancestors six generations ago.
 
The Big Dog said:
Well, as already pointed out, first, she should apologize.

Right?
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Sure. Were it the case that the Republican side accepted genuine apologies as anything other than admissions of weakness, and were it that the Republican side played by the same rules.

Honestly, I think moral considerations should entail that she allowed things to go too far when she was identified as a minority or person of color. That's misleading.

But fair is fair, and certain members of the Republican camp have similarly gone too far. In fact, much further into plain lies while in the highest executive office in the land. Warren's stretching of the truth is, to me, regrettable. Wish she'd never done that and I wish she could apologize and remain electable---note her DNA evidence should show that she merely stretched the truth but didn't make it up of whole cloth.

Whereas Trump just makes **** up. Honestly, no concern for the truth. None at all.

But, never mind. It's plausible that Warren years ago exaggerated her minority status, though no evident benefit was gained. Still, the important thing is that the caravan is filled with criminals, right?
 
Vixen said:
Warren cannot even come up with a vague relationship, never mind a name. There is not even cultural identity.

I can see the physical legacies: land handed down through the ages, customs, names, language, religion, death, marriage and baptism rites, are all a reflection of one's cultural heritage, even if it dates back two, three, four or five centuries.

It's fair enough Warren taking an interest in it, I can sympathise with that but Warren making a national broadcast relaying stories about her mother being 'forced to elope' because of being Native American is stretching credulity when there is no basis to believe she was NA.

It needs more than 'grandpa had high cheekbones' to have a feeling of cultural identity IMV.
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Er. She said that it was somewhere along her great great great grandparents on her mother's side who had Native American ancestry. It turns out that is pretty consistent with her DNA results.

Having Native American ancestry was a major disadvantage over much of the 19th and 20th Century. Many people would try to hide it, and many people would have considered it somewhat shameful, so wouldn't have talked about it.

Because of that, it is really no stretch at all to believe that she can't trace the specific 6th generational ancestor.

There is no evidence that she has ever used this for benefit - except for wanting to meet people with a similar background (which you must admit is perfectly reasonable).

All the claims that she had tried to benefit from this have no basis. A bit like attacking someone for claiming Native American ancestry when she has Native American ancestry.
 
acbytesla said:
I don't often disagree with you. But I don't see how Elizabeth Warren is doing that. It's not like Warren has been saying 'elect me because I'm part Native American'. No, she is responding to silly attacks on her integrity. So while I agree that it is superfluous for her to respond, she is not using her ethnicity for political advantage.
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She's using it two years ahead to defuse the Republican attack. It's an attempt to put it behind her. It probably won't work, for reasons we see here, but it's a reasonable strategy.

I don't think that it's a stupid gambit.
 
phiwum said:
She's using it two years ahead to defuse the Republican attack. It's an attempt to put it behind her. It probably won't work, for reasons we see here, but it's a reasonable strategy.

I don't think that it's a stupid gambit.
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No it won't put It behind her.

If someone wants to make a mountain out of a mole hill, they will. Keep in mind that the Republicans attacked Obama for 3 months about the pastor of his church and said he was born in Kenya for 6 years. They attacked Hillary about Ben Ghazzi for 2 years and at least 2 years about her emails.

One nothinburger after another.
 
Vixen said:
Warren cannot even come up with a vague relationship
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Never claimed

Vixen said:
never mind a name.
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Never claimed

Vixen said:
There is not even cultural identity.
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Never claimed

I am half Swiss by ancestry (Mum's side), almost all French-speaking Swiss from the west. However, there is one Schweizerdeutscher (Swiss German) in my ancestry. I have no idea who he was or what his name was, I only have family lore to go by.

Do I claim to be Schweizerdeutsch? No, I do not. The mere fact that I mention this does not mean I am claiming to be Schweizerdeutsch. I do not even claim to be Swiss.

Same goes for Warren. She has Native American ancestry... this has now been shown to be an irrefutable fact - the DNA does not lie. Does she claim to be a Native American? No, she does not, and she never has. Like me, she has merely stated what she knows about her ancestry.

And yes, when I applied to join the Air Force in 1972, we were asked to give details about our backgrounds. There was a question on the application asked about relatives from foreign countries. I ticked YES, because it was the honest and correct thing to do.
 
smartcooky said:
I am half Swiss by ancestry (Mum's side), almost all French-speaking Swiss from the west. However, there is one Schweizerdeutscher (Swiss German) in my ancestry. I have no idea who he was or what his name was, I only have family lore to go by.

Do I claim to be Schweizerdeutsch? No, I do not. The mere fact that I mention this does not mean I am claiming to be Schweizerdeutsch. I do not even claim to be Swiss.

Same goes for Warren. She has Native American ancestry... this has now been shown to be an irrefutable fact - the DNA does not lie. Does she claim to be a Native American? No, she does not, and she never has. Like me, she has merely stated what she knows about her ancestry.

And yes, when I applied to join the Air Force in 1972, we were asked to give details about our backgrounds. There was a question on the application asked about relatives from foreign countries. I ticked YES, because it was the honest and correct thing to do.
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I think this is the essence of this non-issue.

I pointed out the blond haired blue eyed adopted son of my best friend who is Native American, African American and Caucasian. Is he committing fraud by checking all those boxes on some routine form he filled out?

Or should he just check Caucasian because he appears whiter than white?
 
Stacyhs said:
Everyone lies about small things. Everyone. By your logic, that means that everyone lies about the big things.
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I've always said that if you're willing to lie about the inconsequential, you're going to lie when it matters.

I prefer to lie when it can't be morally avoided, and otherwise stick to the truth.
 
varwoche said:
I wonder about the format of the form where she specified NA. Was it a textual entry? Or check boxes where you check every item applies?

I'm supposedly 1/16 English. (I'm confident this is true, but one must be careful when relying on family lore, otherwise one might be labeled a liar/racist.) It would be phony for me to self-identify as English. (Cheerio chaps!) However if I were filling out a check-all-that-apply form, I might check English.

While I think this is unlikely, it's a small detail I wish I knew.
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The "Are you English?" test:

1. You meet an Englishman do you:

  • A. Say hiya, Buddy! <fx slap his back>
  • B. Say 'G'd day, Blue, you pommie bastard."
  • C. Despise him as soon as he opens his mouth.

2. Your favoured drink is:

  • A. Bourbon
  • B. Fosters lager.
  • C. A nice cup of tea.

3. You drink your tea:

  • A. Chilled with a slice of lemon.
  • B. Just sling in a tea-bag, Dinkum.
  • C. In the correct accroutements: finest Wedgewood china, darling.


4. You meet a stranger on a train. You:

  • A. Tell him your life story throughout the entire journey.
  • B. Make comments about the passing Sheilas.
  • C. Duck and hide behind your newspaper or laptop.

5. You are being applauded. You:

  • A. Enthusiastically join in the applause and bow.
  • B. Make a few catcalls and 'woo-hoo'-type noises.
  • C. Do nothing. An Englishman does not applaud himself.

6. You are on the beach. You are wearing:

  • A. Sneakers and surfing shorts.
  • B. Tiny Speedos and a huge surfboard.
  • C: Rolled up trousers, socks and open-toed sandals. If sunny, a handkerchief knotted at four corners and placed on your head.

7. You are in a restaurant. You order:

  • A. A double-triple-decked-half-pounder hamburger, with bacon, cheese and fries.
  • B: Roast beef and two veg.
  • C. A tandoori.


8. You meet an attractive member of the opposite (or same) sex. You:

  • A. Say, 'hey hey, baby. I wanna know, if you'll be my girl?'
  • B. Say, 'Do you come from the land, from the land down under, where women roar and men thunder?
  • C. Say and do absolutely nothing.

9. You are at the cinema. The film is:

  • A. All action, all adventure. Alpha male gets helpless female.
  • B. Survivor in the outback, with crocodiles and red sands.
  • C. No sex, please.

10. It's a hot day. 35 ºC.

  • A. You take off your top and lounge around in short pants.
  • B: Ditto.
  • C. You might loosen your tie.





Answers:

Mostly A's. Nope.
Mostly B's. Keep practising.
Mostly C's. Congratulations you are an Englishman.
 
The Big Dog said:
say, does Randi have that million dollar challenge? Because you are a terrific mind reader!

I "predict" that this question:

Do you agree she should apologize? Yes __ No___

will remain unanswered while people caterwaul about my response to a hypothetical.
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Let's be clear. What are we asking that she ought to apologize for?

She apparently listed herself as having Native American ancestors. That's true. Did she list herself as a minority? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm not positive.) If so, this was misleading at best. An apology for that overstatement might be in order, though it would only serve the "other side" to point out her error, not prompt these many fine Christians to forgive her.

Nonetheless, whether one ought to apologize or not has ****-all to do with political concerns, but rather with guilt. This is a fact that certain executives in the government have not learned, of course.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I'm British, we love us some bureaucracy, hell, what the world described as our Empire was really the Admin Dept on which the Sun never set.

None the less it does surprise me that some Americans seem to think that ticking the wrong box on an HR form has a longer shelf life than, for example, attempted rape.
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To be fair, it's a lot easier to confirm the wrong box was ticked than that an attempted rape happened.

Indeed, I find totally reasonable doubt that Kavanaugh was guilty of attempted rape way back when. I tend to think the preponderance of evidence is against him, but it doesn't matter to me, since his behavior during the hearing is enough to confirm he oughtn't be on the bench.
 
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