Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

[JoeMorgue]

The reason for that idea, for me, is that if the Senate's supposed to confirm appointments and laws, then they should bloody well be aware of the impacts of these things, not just whether this'll hurt or help their reelection chances.

True but that means when law and government because complex enough it just... turns into its own thing and becomes almost self feeding so that puts a wall that keeps everything the government is there to support out. Science, teaching, engineering and 3rd Class Telephone Sanitizing no longer have a voice in the decision making process, only the politics of them does.

In an ideal (perhaps impossibly ideal) world "Politician" should be a skill one has on top of an area of expertise, not one in and off itself.

 

[Belz...]

True but that means when law and government because complex enough it just... turns into its own thing and becomes almost self feeding so that puts a wall that keeps everything the government is there to support out. Science, teaching, engineering and 3rd Class Telephone Sanitizing no longer have a voice in the decision making process, only the politics of them does.

...are you adding to what I said or voicing a counterpoint?

 

[carlitos]

"First 2000 names in the Boston telephone directory" would be plenty for an extended royal family.

 

[JoeMorgue]

...are you adding to what I said or voicing a counterpoint?

Little of both. Like you sort of "Talking out loud."

I think if being a "Politician" becomes such a high level skill that to be in politics requires you to be a politician and nothing else, that does hurt us in the long run because it keeps other areas of expertise out of the decision making process.

 

[TragicMonkey]

There is also the 2nd Amendment solution.. .

Some ancient cultures had an elegant solution in which they ritually sacrificed a ceremonial monarch. This tradition has much to recommend it, and it certainly cuts down on the expense of maintaining a monarch in retirement. And that way they can't criticize how their successors are doing.

 

[TragicMonkey]

"First 2000 names in the Boston telephone directory" would be plenty for an extended royal family.

Obviously we'd exclude Yankees from the throne. I didn't think that even needed to said.

 

[phiwum]

Ever hear of the Petticoat Affair? We tend to forget the scandals of the past, but I assure you our ancestors were no better than we are. What they lacked in technological convenience of communication they made up for in spiteful imagination. At least our scandals are based on things people said or did, back then they just invented what they didn't have knowledge of.

Er, sorry, our scandals are based on facts?

Maybe there are fewer scandals made up of whole cloth, but we all remember birtherism.

 

[kookbreaker]

Obviously we'd exclude Yankees from the throne. I didn't think that even needed to said.

Traditional definition of Yankee or modern definition?

 

[JoeMorgue]

There's an Arthur C. Clarke book where on a distant planet where a human colony has been set up after the Earth's Sun goes kerflewie the "President" isn't elected or appointed but chosen at random, like Jury duty.

The logic being "Under no circumstances should anyone who wants to hold the office of President actually be allowed to do it."

 

[The Big Dog]

Hmmm, remember when a knowledgeable poster said that this stupid stunt was relevant, harmful and that Warren was as tone deaf as the last failed candidate. Lets see what actual Warren fans think:

Warren has never handled this issue well. It’s still not clear quite what she’s saying: she is a Cherokee, then? She isn’t? But I honestly don’t think someone can run for president and expect to win the Democratic nomination if they are unable to own up to mistakes, and gratuitously offend and ignore Native Americans. I have liked Elizabeth Warren for a long time, but this is a massive political liability. She is wrong on this, she doesn’t seem to know she is wrong, she refuses to apologize, and she continues to make it worse. I don’t know why, instead of suggesting that this is a baseless smear, she can’t just say clearly and definitively that she shouldn’t have spent years publicly touting her Native ancestry. This stupid issue would dominate any contest with Donald Trump. It would never end. It would prevent us from ever actually discussing any serious issues. It would be like the goddamn email scandal all over again. And Warren has shown that she would handle it badly. At this point, I do not see how she can be a serious presidential contender.

It would be like the goddamn email scandal all over again. And Warren has shown that she would handle it badly.

 

[Belz...]

But I honestly don’t think someone can run for president and expect to win the Democratic nomination if they are unable to own up to mistakes, and gratuitously offend and ignore Native Americans.

And yet, someone did in 2016.

 

[The Big Dog]

And yet, someone did in 2016.

When did Hillary offend Native Americans?

 

[Belz...]

When did Hillary offend Native Americans?

Hillary's President of the United States?

Oh, wait. You're right, someone would expect to be able to do that and become president IF and only IF they are Republican.

Carry on.

 

[Marcus]

Beto is not pretending to be Hispanic, but he is certainly using the nickname for all it's worth. The campaign signs are everywhere emblazoned with just the word "Beto". In my neighborhood , which is about half Hispanic, people either assume he is part Hispanic, if they are not fully informed, or at least simpatico if they are. Not a bad strategy actually.



Before it is assumed yet again that I must be a Republican, I'm voting for Beto, the alternative is Ted Cruz for FSM sake.

 

[The Big Dog]

Hmmm, remember when a knowledgeable poster said that this stupid stunt was relevant, harmful and that Warren was as tone deaf as the last failed candidate. Lets see what actual Warren fans think:

But I honestly don’t think someone can run for president and expect to win the Democratic nomination if they are unable to own up to mistakes, and gratuitously offend and ignore Native Americans.

It would be like the goddamn email scandal all over again. And Warren has shown that she would handle it badly.

And yet, someone did in 2016.

When did Hillary offend Native Americans?

Hillary's President of the United States?

Oh, wait. You're right, someone would expect to be able to do that and become president IF and only IF they are Republican.

Carry on.

Rubs temples....

 

[Marcus]

Beto has been called Beto since he was a small child. They've even got photos of him as a little kid wearing a shirt with that name.

That said:

I was responding to this post, don't know why it didn't take.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Warren is going to be our next POTUS, y'all. The alt right attack is ...amusing to me. Like, I can't stop giggling. This is the "oppo research"? Well, thank you for your service. We've got this one.

Implicit in the accusation that Warren took advantage of her ancestry is the assumption that there was an advantage, and as soon as you say "claimed minority status," every reactionary knows exactly what that means. What's really laughable about this, other than the lack of substantiation, is that it's being used to besmirch the character of someone who might run against a self-obsessed demagogue who is revered by his cult for taking every possible advantage throughout is entire life, most of it dishonestly and some of it illegally, right up to today.

When Trump talks about this elusive former greatness that he's going to restore, he must be talking about another time that the Republican Party was characterized by deceit and hypocrisy.

 

[The Big Dog]

Implicit in the accusation that Warren took advantage of her ancestry is the assumption that there was an advantage, and as soon as you say "claimed minority status," every reactionary knows exactly what that means. What's really laughable about this, other than the lack of substantiation, is that it's being used to besmirch the character of someone who might run against a self-obsessed demagogue who is revered by his cult for taking every possible advantage throughout is entire life, most of it dishonestly and some of it illegally, right up to today.

When Trump talks about this elusive former greatness that he's going to restore, he must be talking about another time that the Republican Party was characterized by deceit and hypocrisy.

From the article i just posted and that no Warren fans seemingly have bothered to read:

Warren has focused much of her defense on proving that she did not get hired or promoted at Harvard because of her claim to Native ancestry, calling many prominent law professors as witnesses. But her claim still allowed Harvard to pat itself on the back for diversity that it did not actually have, touting her as a woman of color. This makes it more difficult for actual Native women to succeed: if Harvard believes it has a Native American law professor, when it doesn’t, then it will not feel pressured to create an opportunity for an actual Native American law professor, even if Warren was hired solely because of her contributions to bankruptcy law scholarship.

A point made previously, of course, and destined to be ignored.

 

[River]

What is the general consensus now that the smoke has cleared.

Is Warren a minority?

Was it OK for her to claim so, and to claim to be NA on work documents and listings?

 

[acbytesla]

What is the general consensus now that the smoke has cleared.

Ignorance and Apathy.

Is Warren a minority?

I don't know.

Was it OK for her to claim so, and to claim to be NA on work documents and listings?

I don't care.