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Women's Cycling Champion is a Man

theprestige said:
I know they're not right now, but would an open competition that specified the same pull weight for all competitors be "fair"? Or would the male muscular advantage still close out women from the top levels of such a sport?

Actually, what about shooting competitions? The guns are all identical. What do open shooting competitions look like.

And speaking of shooting competitions, the elephant in the room is military service.
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Regarding the elephant, in what way? The military forces have particular physical requirements for personnel, there's no reason gender needs to come into it is there?
 
Darat said:
There are literally hundreds of sporting bodies/authorities/federations/associations and so on, pretty much every major sport will have a "official" governing body and they will be free (unless they've agreed to follow some other organisations rules) to decide whatever criteria they want to use as their entry criteria.
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If a women is good enough and wants to compete in a men's league in most western countries it 's difficult to prevent her from doing so.
 
lomiller said:
False premise. There really isn’t any such thing as “male only sports/leagues” If a women wanted to compete in the more popular higher salary league and was good enough to earn a spot, in most first world democracies it would effectively be impossible to keep her out. Comparing best vs best leagues with best women vs best women leagues isn’t apples to apples.
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Think you may be mistaken.
 
Darat said:
Regarding the elephant, in what way? The military forces have particular physical requirements for personnel, there's no reason gender needs to come into it is there?
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But we can't keep gender out of it is the problem.
 
theprestige said:
I know they're not right now, but would an open competition that specified the same pull weight for all competitors be "fair"? Or would the male muscular advantage still close out women from the top levels of such a sport?

Actually, what about shooting competitions? The guns are all identical. What do open shooting competitions look like.

And speaking of shooting competitions, the elephant in the room is military service.
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Equal weight bows would make the advantage less. There's still an element of control involved where muscle helps. On the other hand, if you set the required weight too high, it would exclude more women than men.

"Fair" is a loaded and overused word, but restrictions on bow pull weight could minimize men's advantage.

I don't know how it affects shooting. I would think there wouldn't be a huge advantage for men, but I don't know.
 
JoeMorgue said:
No same football. The divisions (at least the ones that aren't purely organizational) between NFL and NCAA Div 1 are the sort of arbitrary segregation of players of different skill and ability level we're talking about.
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Wrong. The original reference was to what Americans would call soccer, and what the rest of the world calls football. It had nothing whatsoever to do with American football.
 
Another point is that professional sports are all sports that men created and designed around how males like to play and males like to watch. The answer has been to put female catagories in place. The result of that is we have people claiming female sports are garbage because the best female athletes can't compete with the best male athletes. The solution is to professionalize female dominant sports but the you have those same people saying "I wouldn't watch that crap!"

Our society is set up to honour men and it is ingrained in our conscious. It is easier to get past that if something else is at play. The Canadian women's hockey team sold out all their games at the Vancouver Olympics because they were playing for their country. That works as long as it is a male sport that females are playing. It didn't work so well for female sports. Those are still left for spectators who want to ogle female bodies.
 
qayak said:
Another point is that professional sports are all sports that men created and designed around how males like to play and males like to watch. The answer has been to put female catagories in place. The result of that is we have people claiming female sports are garbage because the best female athletes can't compete with the best male athletes. The solution is to professionalize female dominant sports but the you have those same people saying "I wouldn't watch that crap!"

Our society is set up to honour men and it is ingrained in our conscious. It is easier to get past that if something else is at play. The Canadian women's hockey team sold out all their games at the Vancouver Olympics because they were playing for their country. That works as long as it is a male sport that females are playing. It didn't work so well for female sports. Those are still left for spectators who want to ogle female bodies.
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The flagship female-dominant sport seems to be women's gymnastics... Which is actually dominated by juveniles. Though I wonder... Would a twenty year-old man doing a floor routine have a thrust-to-weight-ratio advantage over a thirteen year-old girl?

Hm.

What about ballet? It's not a sport, but it is a demonstration of physical prowess, where excellence is highly esteemed. It's also co-ed, with male and female performers sharing the stage and performing alongside each other. Does ballet choreography take into account the physical differences between the sexes? Or does that difference get erased by the extremity of the selection process?
 
theprestige said:
The flagship female-dominant sport seems to be women's gymnastics... Which is actually dominated by juveniles. Though I wonder... Would a twenty year-old man doing a floor routine have a thrust-to-weight-ratio advantage over a thirteen year-old girl?

Hm.

What about ballet? It's not a sport, but it is a demonstration of physical prowess, where excellence is highly esteemed. It's also co-ed, with male and female performers sharing the stage and performing alongside each other. Does ballet choreography take into account the physical differences between the sexes? Or does that difference get erased by the extremity of the selection process?
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Figure skating.

Men do it better, but women are more popular, and children don't have a huge advantage.
 
Meadmaker said:
Figure skating.

Men do it better, but women are more popular, and children don't have a huge advantage.
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Good point. I remember a recent podcast - ESPN's 30 for 30 (great podcast) - about a phenomenal figure skater who was deprecated because she had the muscles to perform routines that emphasized power over grace.
 
Meadmaker said:
Figure skating.

Men do it better, but women are more popular, and children don't have a huge advantage.
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Do regular people really give a **** about a triple axel? Women are more graceful than men, and better looking, so their ice dancing will play about as well.

What's the term for bodies that make more aesthetic movements?

ETA: One difference between women and men is that the former seem more likely achieve social status by playing individual sports.
 
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Not quite sports, but women’s role is sports entertainment (“wrestling”) is changing and in some cases women can rival the men for match quality. At it’s best it’s about storytelling, which women can do just as well as men. Men can do big athletic spots that women can’t, but that’s a double edged sword because they are more prone to falling back on this which hurts match quality in the long run.
 
Where does it stop?

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Darat said:
The problem with a historical fact?
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You claimed a causal relationship between a past historical fact and a current situation which isn't supported by anything and is contradicted by evidence.
 
Darat said:
Regarding the elephant, in what way? The military forces have particular physical requirements for personnel, there's no reason gender needs to come into it is there?
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Sure, gender doesn't need to come into physical requirements for the military. But it does. Requirements are often lower for women than for men.
 
Belz... said:
Is it ok for a man to hit a woman? If they agree to fight, yes.

Equality, remember?
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In at least one fight, the woman didn't know she was fighting against a transgender. That isn't informed consent.
 
theprestige said:
The flagship female-dominant sport seems to be women's gymnastics... Which is actually dominated by juveniles. Though I wonder... Would a twenty year-old man doing a floor routine have a thrust-to-weight-ratio advantage over a thirteen year-old girl?
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Floor routine is a good comparison, since they both do it. But where women really excel and men wouldn't keep up is balance beam. It requires a level of spinal flexibility that men just don't have. Plus, some of the moves would be nut crushers.
 
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