Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

[River]

No. But that's not relevant.



I haven't seen that here, except with your attempt at faux neutrality.



You've sided with the nonsense.Your earliest posts here since the DNA was released was an article from a hard-right Trump supporter who made multiple mistakes in his criticism. You've clung to ridiculous 'points' like a cookbook as if it were smoking gun in a murder scene, and acted in this thread and in other like a typical Trump supporter.

What are we supposed to think? That despite your whole-hearted support of the attacks & bullying of Warren, the pure whataboutism you've displayed in the Meuller thread, and multiple other Trump support youve displayed that you are pure neutral because you maybe, possibly, once flicked a booger in his direction once?

Yeah, sure.

Can you quote those examples? Thanks.

 

[Drewbot]

George S. Patton self identified as a former general in Napoleon's army or something like that.

Elizabeth Warren self identified as a Native American (Cherokee/Delaware).

We can all go home now.

 

[Giordano]

Then why do it? Surely there was something to gain, otherwise, just leave it blank, no?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Humor right? I check ethnicity boxes on certain forms because I suspect it helps some of the laudable purposes of certain organizations. Such as being certain that they are not engaging in practices that produce biases. And I am a white-ish male.

As to all the checking boxes I do for which there is nothing for me to gain - perhaps 40 a day?

 

[kookbreaker]

Can you quote those examples? Thanks.

How many times did you triumphantly post that the Cherokee Nation would not recognize her as a member of the tribe, despite that in no way being what Warren claimed or wanted.

How many times did you post bit where she identified as NA despite the fact that said things were in no way an aid to her career despite Trump and the Right-Winger's claims otherwise..

You posted an obviously crap article from a frothing, bullying, right-winger who was likewise attacking Warren.

You are supporting the bullying. Good Day.

 

[JoeMorgue]

George S. Patton self identified as a former general in Napoleon's army or something like that.

Patton claimed at least 8 previous lives; a Greek Hopilite who fought alongside Alexander the Great at the Siege of Tyre, a first century Roman soldier who fought the Parthians, a Viking Raider, a French Knight during the 100 Years War, an English archer at Agincourt, a Privateer or Pirate of unknown time period, A Scottishman fighting for the House of Stuart during the English Civil War, and finally an add to Joachim Murat, a "Marshall" (roughly a General or Field Marshall) to Napoleon.

 

[The Big Dog]

Well, I would be cold from the floor after I fell onto it in fits of laughter at the idea of Trump being able to even boil water, let alone cook.

Otherwise? Really would not care. Cookbooks are ludicrous and sometimes literally a dime a dozen. There’s thousands printed each year and few have any meaning or impact.

Anyone think its odd that you are wringing your hands over this as opposed to a Congressman actually faking a Native American minority status, joining a fake tribe, and securing multi-million dollar contracts meant for minority owned businesses?

Many Native Americans were also offended by Trumps constant use of 'Pocahontas' as an insult. But you didn't care back then did you?

You've sided with the nonsense.Your earliest posts here since the DNA was released was an article from a hard-right Trump supporter who made multiple mistakes in his criticism. You've clung to ridiculous 'points' like a cookbook as if it were smoking gun in a murder scene, and acted in this thread and in other like a typical Trump supporter.

What are we supposed to think? That despite your whole-hearted support of the attacks & bullying of Warren, the pure whataboutism you've displayed in the Meuller thread, and multiple other Trump support youve displayed that you are pure neutral because you maybe, possibly, once flicked a booger in his direction once?

Yeah, sure.

They also want to justify the constant bullying & racist namecalling their hero Trump employs.

I notice that while they danced with glee over the Cherokee Nation's reaction nobody had any response about the NCAI's request that he knock it off with the "Pocahontas' references.

I know, right? It totally justifies Trumps bullying use of racist nicknames!

How many times did you triumphantly post that the Cherokee Nation would not recognize her as a member of the tribe, despite that in no way being what Warren claimed or wanted.

How many times did you post bit where she identified as NA despite the fact that said things were in no way an aid to her career despite Trump and the Right-Winger's claims otherwise..

You posted an obviously crap article from a frothing, bullying, right-winger who was likewise attacking Warren.

You are supporting the bullying. Good Day.

Oh man, I want you to feed me that Whatabout Trump stuff directly into my veins because man: That is the good stuff!

 

[WilliamSeger]

I see you have absolutely no rebuttal to my statement, so instead you attack my character. Screw formal debates, we're in a discussion here, and you can't distill everything to just two sides. Do you even get that very basic idea?

I guess I better not tell you what my mother would have said if I responded like that.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I guess I better not tell you what my mother would have said if I responded like that.

I suppose I don't have to tell you that the dynamic between you as a child and your mother and the dynamic between you and other members of this board have some key differences.

 

[beachnut]

pay up trump - trumpsters busy moving the goal posts

Will she be the next "lock her up" scapegoat for trump. The best people, trump has them all

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DppTevSU0AEBYk7.jpg:large

 

[WilliamSeger]

I say we make our own 'side': BelzMorgue. Not left-wing, not right-wing, but bottom-wing. We just have to determine what our deal is, and always argue in favour of it regardless of the topic. Now... what could we pick that'd apply to every conceivable topic?

I say cars. Not only are they great for analogies but they're everywhere. Then we can open a blog or forum called "The BelzMorgue Carwash" and we're in business.


...wait, what was I on again?

You could call it Independents United, if you don't mind it being slightly oxymoronic.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I don't think we need a third party or some sort of "Independent Wave." Without fixing the underlining system neither of those would be anything more than meaningless feel good victories.

We need more variety tolerated in the two tribes. Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans need to be a thing again. "Crossing the aisle" needs to be respected and not demonized.

 

[Giordano]

Classically an average human generation has been considered ~20 years (time from birth to beginning to have kids). At many times and in many locations (such as 1700s and 1800s America) the time was even shorter for women - having kids at 16 and dying in their twenties (often when having even more kids).

But even taking 30 years as a high end generational estimate, Senator Warren's Native American ancestry places it at the beginning of the European occupation of the Western Hemisphere. Certainly well within time range of being very real and, importantly, well within the time range many families are proud to claim their own particular ancestry. For example, the Mayflower Society proudly links themselves as descendants of settlers from that colony. Many families are very proud of having ancestral links that go even further back in history. e.g. Links to Napoleon are popular. And every royal family in the world is "royal" due to claimed ancestries that go back even further (and probably many would not stand up to a DNA test).

I easily understand that a link to Native American ancestry would be a proud family fact that Warren learned of, and incorporated into her self identity, growing up. And it would be exactly comparable in all ways to learning that one was descended from someone on the Mayflower.

Poo-poo-ing Senator Warren's Native American ancestry is simply a crude attempt at undermining her with a political smear that is, in fact, factually wrong. Embarrassing at all levels to the accusers and to those who have played into the accusers' strategy.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I suppose I don't have to tell you that the dynamic between you as a child and your mother and the dynamic between you and other members of this board have some key differences.

I don't suppose so, either, which makes it baffling that you should feel to need to do so.


Well, not really.

 

[The Big Dog]

Poo-poo-ing Senator Warren's Native American ancestry is simply a crude attempt at undermining her with a political smear that is, in fact, factually wrong. Embarrassing at all levels to the accusers and to those who have played into the accusers' strategy.

AHLEQUAH, Okla. — Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. issued the following statement Monday in response to Senator Elizabeth Warren’s DNA test claiming Native Heritage:

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America," Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said. "Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

I will alert him to your objections

 

[Stacyhs]

Classically an average human generation has been considered ~20 years (time from birth to beginning to have kids). At many times and in many locations (such as 1700s and 1800s America) the time was even shorter for women - having kids at 16 and dying in their twenties (often when having even more kids).

But even taking 30 years as a high end generational estimate, Senator Warren's Native American ancestry places it at the beginning of the European occupation of the Western Hemisphere. Certainly well within time range of being very real and, importantly, well within the time range many families are proud to claim their own particular ancestry. For example, the Mayflower Society proudly links themselves as descendants of settlers from that colony. Many families are very proud of having ancestral links that go even further back in history. e.g. Links to Napoleon are popular. And every royal family in the world is "royal" due to claimed ancestries that go back even further (and probably many would not stand up to a DNA test).

I easily understand that a link to Native American ancestry would be a proud family fact that Warren learned of, and incorporated into her self identity, growing up. And it would be exactly comparable in all ways to learning that one was descended from someone on the Mayflower.

Poo-poo-ing Senator Warren's Native American ancestry is simply a crude attempt at undermining her with a political smear that is, in fact, factually wrong. Embarrassing at all levels to the accusers and to those who have played into the accusers' strategy.

Excellently stated.
You can add the Daughters of the American Revolution to that list, too. I proudly descend from several Revolutionary War veterans and their DNA would most likely not show up in my ancestry at all being so far back.

 

[River]

How many times did you triumphantly post that the Cherokee Nation would not recognize her as a member of the tribe, despite that in no way being what Warren claimed or wanted.

How many times did you post bit where she identified as NA despite the fact that said things were in no way an aid to her career despite Trump and the Right-Winger's claims otherwise..

You posted an obviously crap article from a frothing, bullying, right-winger who was likewise attacking Warren.

You are supporting the bullying. Good Day.

Interesting you see linking to articles and statements as bullying of someone. I see you did not quote a specific post, so I'll take that as none of them were considered as bullying. If you feel otherwise, please feel free to quote those posts that support "attacks and bullying on Warren".

 

[citizenzen]

Classically an average human generation has been considered ~20 years (time from birth to beginning to have kids). At many times and in many locations (such as 1700s and 1800s America) the time was even shorter for women - having kids at 16 and dying in their twenties (often when having even more kids).

But even taking 30 years as a high end generational estimate, Senator Warren's Native American ancestry places it at the beginning of the European occupation of the Western Hemisphere. Certainly well within time range of being very real and, importantly, well within the time range many families are proud to claim their own particular ancestry. For example, the Mayflower Society proudly links themselves as descendants of settlers from that colony. Many families are very proud of having ancestral links that go even further back in history. e.g. Links to Napoleon are popular. And every royal family in the world is "royal" due to claimed ancestries that go back even further (and probably many would not stand up to a DNA test).

I easily understand that a link to Native American ancestry would be a proud family fact that Warren learned of, and incorporated into her self identity, growing up. And it would be exactly comparable in all ways to learning that one was descended from someone on the Mayflower.

Poo-poo-ing Senator Warren's Native American ancestry is simply a crude attempt at undermining her with a political smear that is, in fact, factually wrong. Embarrassing at all levels to the accusers and to those who have played into the accusers' strategy.

Agreed. Earlier this morning I was looking a bit into this same issue. I found a source that claimed a generation length to be ~25 years.

25 x 6 = 150
25 x 10 = 250

2018 - 150 = 1868
2018 - 250 = 1768

So according to Warren's report the native American DNA was introduced between 1768 and 1868. Now we just need to find out if Warren's descendants were in America between those periods. I haven't yet seen a source for that information, and would welcome anybody providing it.

 

[The Big Dog]

By the way, how tone deaf is it to say things like "people are proud to be descended from folks who came over on the Mayflower, so what is the big deal" in a thread about appropriating NA culture.

Hoooo booooy.....

 

[Imhotep]

I don't think we need a third party or some sort of "Independent Wave." Without fixing the underlining system neither of those would be anything more than meaningless feel good victories.

We need more variety tolerated in the two tribes. Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans need to be a thing again. "Crossing the aisle" needs to be respected and not demonized.

I fear that there may be no way to achieve that except with the pressure of a third party added to the political arena, Joe.

Plus, "Not this election because it's too important", I'm not going to buy that either.

 

[Meadmaker]

Excellently stated.
You can add the Daughters of the American Revolution to that list, too. I proudly descend from several Revolutionary War veterans and their DNA would most likely not show up in my ancestry at all being so far back.

Just don't proudly descend from Confederate soldiers. They were bad.