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The Behavior of UK Police officers.

I do. What would happen? Would you expect to be arrested? I don't even understand your point. It's not even a personal insult. I see worse on this site ten times a day.

And honestly, this whole 'debate' is excruciating. Can't people see that it's irrelevant whether something is deemed offensive, very offensive or nuclear grade offensive because it is an entirely subjective judgement. Why people advocate for a fascist state where you can be arrested for being insulting is anybody's guess, they must really despise liberal values.

If I sent someone a series of text messages with that language.

Then, yes I would expect to be arrested if I were to be reported to the police.

it's obviously not just robust debate, but direct personal communication intended to cause distress.

ETA, that is easier to prosecute under hate speech legislation
 
If I sent someone a series of text messages with that language.

Then, yes I would expect to be arrested if I were to be reported to the police.

it's obviously not just robust debate, but direct personal communication intended to cause distress.

For most people '1984' is a dystopian novel detailing the horrors of authoritarian society. For you it must be a wish list.
 
For most people '1984' is a dystopian novel detailing the horrors of authoritarian society. For you it must be a wish list.

No, but I am against sending messages directly to someone with the intent to cause distress and anxiety.

Which is what these text messages were aimed at doing.
 
The Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee fans of their local clubs stay out of the bigotry. The fans from those cities who get buses every match day to see their Old Firm team often do.

People travel from all over Scotland to watch either Rangers or Celtic.

Yes true. Also true that a very small subset of Hearts/Hibs supporters still engage in that nonsense too.

Touche'


ETA-Apologies for the derail. No more SPL talk from me.
 
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I posted the link pages back, and quotes. Of course you read this, so maybe you can explain how the Scottish law differs from the UK law.

It is not my job to find the laws you are criticising. It is yours.


What you linked to speaks of hate and grossly offensive not mocking. Mocking is your word as you try and reduce the severity of the crimes.

Please, let me do the parodies. "Nobody's being arrested for insulting speech!" "What about this guy?" "Oh, oh, well... he was being very insulting!"

Your parody is showing how the law works here. Insulting is not enough. Very insulting is. very insulting is not the same as mocking, it is far more severe.

The law has set a line which is the speech has to be hateful or grossly offensive. This forum has set a similar line.

Hateful and offensive! Oh boo hoo! Let's all cry to the police. Do you know the meaning of 'free speech'? And be careful when replying, I will phone the police immediately if you assault me with your different opinions.

Did you know that free speech is not the right to say anything and everything you want without fear of repercussions from those you have set out to grossly offend or stir up hatred against?
 
Indeed, the direct nature of the communication aimed at the Muslim woman was threatening.

Prefacing it with, "It's not personal" doesn't change that.

I wonder what would happen if I sent someone a PM here that said?

"Nothing personal, but I **** hate your deepest beliefs and will do all I can in life to defeat your filth"
Actually I don't.

ETA:

especially in a series of text messages to this person

Indeed, baron is keeping his speech here moderated because he knows if he turns it up to hate or grossly offensive, he will face sanction from the moderators.

Will he now condemn the moderators and this forum for that?
 
No, but I am against sending messages directly to someone with the intent to cause distress and anxiety.

That's great. However, it's a pretty big jump to advocating arrest of anybody who insults anybody else. I have no knowledge of you personally, but if you tell me that you have never insulted someone with the intent of causing distress or anxiety then I flat out won't believe you. Nor would I believe anybody else who said it.

It is not my job to find the laws you are criticising. It is yours.

I found it, linked to it and quoted from it. Just because you're now finding it doesn't back up your argument is not my problem.

What you linked to speaks of hate and grossly offensive not mocking. Mocking is your word as you try and reduce the severity of the crimes.

Ooh, the seriousness of the crimes. Somebody was very offended. I'll tell you what, go outside right now, find someone who is religious and say, "Anyone gullible enough to believe in a beardy bloke in the sky, his bastard son and a holey rapist absolutely deserves derision. There is no evidence at all for any of that crap."

When you're arrested, say, "Well, whilst I fully support people saying what I just said, and indeed subscribe to a website where multiple people post similar things every day without a peep of protest from me, I am very happy that I am being arrested on account of speaking 'hate' and 'gross offence'."

And seeing as you neither know nor understand the law, I'll tell you that it's not a case of online insults being seen by the authorities as lesser crimes than face-to-face because, as I posted earlier, they are deemed to be of the same severity.

(And please, before other Abbadon's jump in, I am not speaking out against what Abbadon wrote, or even the offensive claptrap that MikeG wrote. The opposite; I am standing up for their right to post such things without being arrested and carted off to a cell.

It's difficult to believe that I am forced to argue against for free speech on a site such as this. It's quite telling that the left have now usurped the position of the old right, who were all for free speech unless they disagreed with it.

Your parody is showing how the law works here. Insulting is not enough. Very insulting is. very insulting is not the same as mocking, it is far more severe.

Yes, we know, you think it acceptable to be criminalised for saying something very offensive. 1984.

The law has set a line which is the speech has to be hateful or grossly offensive. This forum has set a similar line.

I had no idea I could be charged and jailed for breaking the Ts&Cs. I will request that the mods highlight that particular portion of the text because I feel it's quite important.

Did you know that free speech is not the right to say anything and everything you want without fear of repercussions from those you have set out to grossly offend or stir up hatred against?

Listen to yourself. And it's not just the fact you haven't a clue what free speech actually is, it's that you're more than happy to tolerate it when it suits you and see people jailed for it when it doesn't.

Indeed, baron is keeping his speech here moderated because he knows if he turns it up to hate or grossly offensive, he will face sanction from the moderators.

Will he now condemn the moderators and this forum for that?

Quite incredible that you haven't got a clue what free speech means, or the difference between a private forum moderating its members and the police enforcing legal regulation on the general public. I expect most senior officers in the police also have this cognitive failing.
 
Are you being deliberately obtuse? It’s an alternative spelling of ‘pikey’, a term with which you appear to be well-acquainted.

Ah, indeed, I made the mistake of assuming it was a word relevant to the topic being discussed rather than the desperate irrelevant dig of someone with no argument.
 
If I sent someone a series of text messages with that language.

Then, yes I would expect to be arrested if I were to be reported to the police.

it's obviously not just robust debate, but direct personal communication intended to cause distress.

ETA, that is easier to prosecute under hate speech legislation

And it has always been an offence pretty much since the royal mail started, that the technology that delivers the messages has changed doesn't effect the principle.

Indeed although people think that the hate laws have widened what can be actioned in some ways they've narrowed the definitions as previously the legislation had much more a "know it when we see it" approach.

As a caveat: I do not agree with the "hate speech" laws we have at the moment in the UK and campaigned against them prior to enactment but I do agree with the principle we have had for a hundred or so years.
 
And it has always been an offence pretty much since the royal mail started, that the technology that delivers the messages has changed doesn't effect the principle.

Indeed although people think that the hate laws have widened what can be actioned in some ways they've narrowed the definitions as previously the legislation had much more a "know it when we see it" approach.

I disagree. There's more granularity now but it's the difference between a somewhat nebulous definition that was rarely enforced and a more comprehensive law that not only ends up being just as all-encompassing as the previous one, but can now be defined subjectively 'on the fly' by literally anybody who takes the opportunity. Add to that, that people now interact publicly on social media, and the police drive to crack down on 'unwanted interactions', and you've got what amounts to a fascist framework that governs the way people interact (and a great way for police to meet their arrest targets).
 
Indeed, the direct nature of the communication aimed at the Muslim woman was threatening.

Prefacing it with, "It's not personal" doesn't change that.

I wonder what would happen if I sent someone a PM here that said?

"Nothing personal, but I **** hate your deepest beliefs and will do all I can in life to defeat your filth"
Actually I don't.

ETA:

especially in a series of text messages to this person

Just for context the woman never reported Melville.... probably because, as she later admitted, she was shagging him at the time.

The texts were found by her husband when he used software to uncover her sordid affair and on seeing the texts handed the details over to the police. Melville was fined £1000 and he is currently seeking to overturn the sentence.
 
And it has always been an offence pretty much since the royal mail started, that the technology that delivers the messages has changed doesn't effect the principle.
So old there was even the widely recognised term of "poison pen letter," and obviously similar laws developed after telephone system was introduced.
 
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Ha, I had to laugh. I was listening to Siouxsie Sioux's 'Arabian Knights' as I wrote my last post. Brilliant track; a protest against the treatment of women by Middle Eastern men, the lyrics include:

Veiled behind screens
Kept as your baby machine
Whilst you conquer more orifices
Of boys, goats and things
Ripped out sheeps' eyes - no forks or knives

Words that would almost certainly get you arrested should you post them on social media as your own (or indeed, even as a quote).

So pathetic.
 
Ha, I had to laugh. I was listening to Siouxsie Sioux's 'Arabian Knights' as I wrote my last post. Brilliant track; a protest against the treatment of women by Middle Eastern men, the lyrics include:



Words that would almost certainly get you arrested should you post them on social media as your own (or indeed, even as a quote).

So pathetic.

Let us know when you get arrested.
 
Let us know when you get arrested.

What makes you think I posted it on social media? I'm not even on social media.

Are you really asserting that this could not happen? Again, you're wrong.

A teenager who posted rap lyrics which included racist language on Instagram has been found guilty of sending a grossly offensive message.

Chelsea Russell, 19, from Liverpool posted the lyric from Snap Dogg's I'm Trippin' to pay tribute to a boy who died in a road crash, a court heard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921
 
Oh! Oh! You said my claim was false! Not my claim is false! That infers you believe my claim is now true! Ner ner!

Pedantry; always a great alternative to adult debate. Your turn.

Sorry, but your logic does not work. 'Your claim was false' makes no assertions about the current status of your claim. It may now be true, it may now be false, there is not enough information in the original statement to give certainty.

Carry on.
 
I really don't understand other countries. I mean are citizens just expected to shoot brown people themselves? Madness I tell you.

Great timing! I just happened upon this tweet.

eq9XjE6.png
 

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