• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

New SCOTUS Judge II: The Wrath of Kavanaugh

People lie when

🔲 They have something to hide, e.g. one or more bad acts.
🔲 The truth might be embarrassing or show them in a bad light
🔲 They have something to gain

You may be able to come up with lots of other specific reasons why people lie, but they will all fall into these three general categories

Only two people were testifying in that hearing

1. Brett Kavanaugh, who for me, checks all three boxes.
2. Dr. Christine Ford, who for me, does not check any of the boxes. I am pretty sure I know who was lying, and it was not Dr. Ford.
(emphasis added)

Perhaps if you knew her better, she might check one or more boxes. Also, you have left out mistakes and delusions as possibilities.

Your sense of certainty is not evidence.
 
Q: When does an accusation become a "personal attack"?

A: When you can prove beyond any doubt whatsoever that those accusations were completely false.

That did not happen with either the Anita Hill accusations against Clarence Thomas, or the Christine Ford accusations against Brett Kavanaugh.

I still believe both women were telling the absolute truth about what happened to them, and that they have correctly identified the perpetrators.

An accusation becomes a personal attack when it is directed at a person, as opposed to their performance on the job or some other objective criterion.

e.g. Bill Cosby's comedy is not funny because he is a rapist. That is a personal attack, because it does not deal with the quality of the comedy, but with the person of the comedian. The accusation that Brett Kavanaugh was an attempted rapist at age 17 is an attack against him, as a person, not against the quality of his work as a judge.
 
(emphasis added)

Perhaps if you knew her better, she might check one or more boxes.

If there were dozens of people coming forward offering to be interviewed by the FBI to tell them about her bad character, that would be a problem for her, and for my ability to take her at her word... but that has not happened. Not a single person who knew her in the past, came forward to offer to tell their story of her bad character to the FBI... not a single one. Those who have come forward have only had good things to say about her.

Can you say the same thing about the 40+ people who came forward to tell the FBI about Kavanaugh; about his bad character and about how he lied to the Senate Judiciary Committee?

Perhaps if you knew Kavanaugh better (as those people clearly did), you might have a different opinion of him.

(see how that works?)

Also, you have left out mistakes and delusions as possibilities.

You are confusing an untruth with a lie. They are not necessarily the same thing.

Delusion is not a motivation to lie
Being mistaken is not a motivation to lie

Your sense of certainty is not evidence.

Neither is yours.... (again, see how that works?)
 
her, and for my ability to take her at her word... but that has not happened. Not a single person who knew her in the past, came forward to offer to tell their story of her bad character to the FBI... not a single one.

You don't know that. The statements made as part of the extended investigation were, and remain, sealed.

At least one person, her ex boyfriend, did actually come forward to say bad things about her character.

Media people will continue to investigate, and will publish things in the future. I'm not sure that's a good thing, but it will happen. We can judge more when we have more data.

Regardless, that's not really the point. The real point is that you have declared that she has no reason to lie, but that is a statement you cannot make based on the evidence available to you.

And, once again, you leave out the possibilities of mistakes or delusions.

Can you say the same thing about the 40+ people who came forward to tell the FBI about Kavanaugh; about his bad character and about how he lied to the Senate Judiciary Committee?

Perhaps if you knew Kavanaugh better (as those people clearly did), you might have a different opinion of him.

(see how that works?)

You seem to be suggesting that if he lied about anything, then she must be telling the truth about everything. If so, that's a fallacious statement. If not, I can't understand why you think his misleading statements about beer consumption are relevant to whether or not he assaulted Ms. Ford when they were in high school.

You are confusing an untruth with a lie. They are not necessarily the same thing.

Delusion is not a motivation to lie
Being mistaken is not a motivation to lie

You are right about one thing. I must not be getting how this works. To me, it seems like you are saying that she had no motivation for lying, therefore she is not lying, therefore what she says must be true. Do I understand your argument?

If so, there are several things wrong with it. First, you do not know her motivations, so your claim that she has no motivation to lie cannot be verified. Second, even if she is not lying, it does not mean that what she says is true.

Or, perhaps, what you are saying is that since Kavanaugh lied about one thing (beer, or yearbooks, or something), his statements about a different thing (assaulting Christine Blasey Ford) cannot be trusted. You are surely correct. They cannot be trusted. We must weigh those words against the available evidence, being skeptical about any protestations of innocence.
 
So, how did Kavanaugh do on his first day on the job? He was disrespectful...

On his first day of arguments, during just one case—Nielsen v. Preap—Kavanaugh tried to speak at the same time as other justices—despite the tradition of new justices deferring to established justices—and interrupted each of the lawyers twice.

...and apparently interested in arguing the case himself.

Kavanaugh didn’t so much ask questions as make statements. The types of statements that should have come from the government’s attorney, not a justice. When he did ask questions—well, here’s an example of a “question”:

Is that presumption based on what we think was really going through Congress's mind at the time or is it based on a constitutional overlay, because what was really going through Congress's time [sic] in 1996 was harshness on this topic. Is that not right?

Not a particularly confidence boosting beginning, in short.
 
Last edited:
People lie when

🔲 They have something to hide, e.g. one or more bad acts.
🔲 The truth might be embarrassing or show them in a bad light
🔲 They have something to gain

You may be able to come up with lots of other specific reasons why people lie, but they will all fall into these three general categories

Only two people were testifying in that hearing

1. Brett Kavanaugh, who for me, checks all three boxes.
2. Dr. Christine Ford, who for me, does not check any of the boxes.

I am pretty sure I know who was lying, and it was not Dr. Ford.

Yes, because the woman who derails the Supreme Court nomination of the guy who is about to turn the US into the Handmaid's Tale, has absolutely nothing to gain.
:rolleyes:
 
So, how did Kavanaugh do on his first day on the job? He was disrespectful...



...and apparently interested in arguing the case himself.



Not a particularly confidence boosting beginning, in short.

LOL! Daily Kos and their long history of being knowledgeable commentators about the Supreme Court! A Judge interrupted a lawyer? Oh my gosh it must be every day in every single court in America!

That is fantastic.
 
:eye-poppi

Folks, that is either the single most ironic post in the history of this forum, or his most honest.

In any event, that post is what dreams are made of.

Fantastic

"Quick! I must make it seem like something directed at me is really directed at the person posting it!"

The Big Dog. Master of "I know you are but what am I?", the best elementary school debating tactic.
 
oh jesus

: rolleyes :: rolleyes :: rolleyes :: rolleyes :: rolleyes :: rolleyes :: rolleyes :: rolleyes :

ProTip: Out of respect for the faithful who post here you should probably use proper capitalization when referring to their Lord and Savior.

It's RollEyes.
 
Q: When does an accusation become a "personal attack"?

A: When you can prove beyond any doubt whatsoever that those accusations were completely false.

That did not happen with either the Anita Hill accusations against Clarence Thomas, or the Christine Ford accusations against Brett Kavanaugh.

I still believe both women were telling the absolute truth about what happened to them, and that they have correctly identified the perpetrators.

Mmmmm...a true believer
 
Anyone else thinking if we had elected the lying, drunken crook POTUS candidate in 2016 we wouldn't have a lying, drunken crook sitting on the SCOTUS in 2018?

Just curious.

:boxedin:
 
An accusation becomes a personal attack when it is directed at a person, as opposed to their performance on the job or some other objective criterion.

e.g. Bill Cosby's comedy is not funny because he is a rapist. That is a personal attack, because it does not deal with the quality of the comedy, but with the person of the comedian. The accusation that Brett Kavanaugh was an attempted rapist at age 17 is an attack against him, as a person, not against the quality of his work as a judge.
However character is a matter to consider in appointing a judge so in his case it is not a "personal attack" in the sense you were using it.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom