New SCOTUS Judge II: The Wrath of Kavanaugh

Meadmaker

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Meadmaker
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This is a continuation thread. Part I may be found here. It may be freely quoted and referenced in this thread.
Posted By: Loss Leader



acbytesla said:
Are you saying that both attended the SAME Prep school? Seriously?
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Yes. Gorsuch was a sophomore when Kavanaugh was a senior.

(Or so I've read. Off to Wikipedia to be sure.....)

ETA: Yep. Georgetown Prep. Kavanaugh graduated in 83, Gorsuch in 85.
 
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River said:
Apparently the chair of the committee agrees with my perception of it, not yours. The ABA is a volunteer private organization entitled to their opinion like any other regardless of who or what they support.
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Apparently the Republican Chair of the Let's Railroad Through a Foul Conservative Rapey Guy Committee agrees with you.

Bu... bu.... doesn't he know you voted for Obama?

(Hint: This is guerrilla theater. Neither statement has any validity.)
 
Meadmaker said:
Ok, so how about we go by the same standards we use ourselves in different situations, instead of comparing two sets of standards used by two sets of other people?


When Bill Clinton lied about his sex life, I was totally unconcerned, and thought the Republicans looked ridiculous for impeaching him and trying him. In this case, if I found that Brett Kavanaugh lied about the assault allegations, I would say throw the bum out, because that was the central and significant issue that was being investigated. If he was less than forthcoming and a bit weaselly about how much he drank 2/3 of his lifetime ago.....meh. The senators' questions were worse than the nominee's lies.


And it doesn't mean that I approve of Bill Clinton's lies or Brett Kavanaugh's lies. I don't even understand Kavanaugh's. They were about things 35 years ago, and made him look like a doofus, which is not exactly an endearing quality in a Supreme Court Justice, but when I hear "Perjury!", I think back to a similar situation 20 years ago, and remember how I explained to people that not all lies under oath are perjury. It's only perjury when it is something material to a case.
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The accusation is that he tried to rape someone while piss-drunk. The lie is that he never drank that much and he never blacked out, despite literally everyone who knew him back then describing him as a blackout, belligerent drunk.

It is entirely material to the case.

[ETA] Oh also
Meadmaker said:
Ok, so how about we go by the same standards we use ourselves in different situations, instead of comparing two sets of standards used by two sets of other people?
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Speaking of going by the same standards we use ourselves, you are familiar with Kavanaugh's role in the Clinton hearings, right?
 
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Meadmaker said:
Anyway, my main point wasn't specifically about his anger and whether it was justified, but about anger in general. It's just frowned upon these days. Expressing anger is taboo. Remember, "Have you no shame, Senator?" That guy was pretty angry. I think a lot of people these days would figure he must have actually been a communist. What about the fictional scene in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington"? I guess it wouldn't play well these days. No anger allowed.

Of course, it's odd. Some displays of anger are ok or at least understandable. I don't think it applies on this board, but I heard various talking heads express sympathy with people shouting and screaming from the public seats during the regular hearings. I guess it's ok to be angry sometimes.
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I think if you go back and watch the exchange between Joe Welch and Joe McCarthy, you will notice a huge difference between Welch's demeanor and Kavanaugh. Welch was angry but controlled and his voice barely rose. I've seen plenty of times where distinguished people in power getting angry. Kavanaugh needs to show some self control.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Yes. Gorsuch was a sophomore when Kavanaugh was a senior.

(Or so I've read. Off to Wikipedia to be sure.....)

ETA: Yep. Georgetown Prep. Kavanaugh graduated in 83, Gorsuch in 85.
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Two right wing white turds defecated by the same privileged private high school. Amazing.
 
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Slings and Arrows said:
Christine Ford's bank records would show payment to the contractor who installed the escape door in her house. She gave testimony under oath that the work was done in 2012, and then she subsequently had to attend marriage counseling over the episode.

If it turns out the work was done in 2008, she committed perjury.
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Did she? Can you quote the part of her testimony where she said that? This is what I found:

Over the years, I told very, very few friends that I had this traumatic experience. I told my husband before we were married that I had experienced a sexual assault. I had never told the details to anyone -- the specific details -- until May 2012, during a couples counseling session.
The reason this came up in counseling is that my husband and I had completed a very extensive, very long remodel of our home and I insisted on a second front door, an idea that he and others disagreed with and could not understand.
In explaining why I wanted a second front door, I began to describe the assault in detail. I recall saying that the boy who assaulted me could someday be on the U.S. Supreme Court, and spoke a bit about his background at an elitist all-boys school in Bethesda, Maryland. My husband recalls that I named my attacker as Brett Kavanaugh.
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That's from her opening testimony. The only things she says happened in 2012 were the counseling session and, during that session, her explanation to her husband for why she wanted the second door, which is when he heard the details of her experience with Kavanaugh for the first time. The work putting up the door could have been done anytime in the previous four years, and nothing she says contradicts that. (In fact, "very extensive and very long remodel" supports what stacyhs said earlier, that the remodel could indeed have begun as long ago as that)

Now it's possible that she said something during the later questioning to the effect of "the work on the door was done in 2012," and I haven't seen it. If so, you can show me. But if not- no, sorry, you can't charge someone with perjury based on the fact that you either don't actually know what they said or just have the reading-comprehension skills of a slow first-grader.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
The accusation is that he tried to rape someone while piss-drunk. The lie is that he never drank that much and he never blacked out, despite literally everyone who knew him back then describing him as a blackout, belligerent drunk.
....
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Let's never forget that as bad as the (attempted) sexual assault was, what traumatized her was that he (allegedly) covered her face and she couldn't breathe. She says she thought he might kill her. That's way beyond a teenage prank.
 
I was mid-reading when the mods split the thread to silence the brilliant arguments by the conservative caucus due to length. Where I left off we were a-speculating on Flake/McConnel/Trump actions and why.

Take it all back to Flake. He only voted the bill out of committee if he had confirmation that McConnell was going to ask the White House for investigation. His threat to vote No meant nothing. He had at least two more votes and would've made the No vote Pence-proof.

McConnell knew that or he never would've agreed. Lindsey knew it, and as he's the one who speaks Turdblossomese, Trump now knows it.

It's optics. They were going to get screwed so are now trying to appear to be Solomon-like.


Trump, in his fevered presser the other day, said he was interested to hear her out. The spittle on Lindsey's chin hadn't dried up before he tweeted support for Rapeydrunk Judge. Three hours later he had someone write something nice about the lying harlot. Did they consciously juxtapose incredible and credible? Or were they 'aving the leetle joke, eh? Donnie probably altered enough report cards and assessments in his time.

"In the course so far, Cadet Bonestars has proven incapable of grasping the basic material in the course."
 
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12446302#post12446302
abcytesla said:
It really isn't much of a gamble. And there is a 60 plus percent chance they hold on to the Senate. Are you telling me the Republicans don't have a half dozen suitable candidates on the shelf right this moment?
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It's Trump that is picking the next in line, not the GOP. But The Federalist Society most certainly has the list Trump is choosing from.

It appears McConnell may also want his right wing minion on the bench ASAP.

I don't know, I just know McConnell is insisting on ramming this appointment through.

Is it just knee-jerk on McConnell's part? You tell me what you think?
 
Meadmaker said:
This is the kind of thing I feared about extending the investigation. Look into every nook and cranny to find anything at all, and yell "Perjury!" a lot.

But, they will look into that, and it will be a trivial exercise to find out when it was done, and if it was indeed done in 2008, that will raise a red flag, but the FBI does this stuff for a living. They'll figure out if it's significant.
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So you don't think it matters if Kavanaugh was lying today? Or in his previous confirmations which emails apparently contradicted his testimony?
 
Dr. Ford wanting another door is not unsurprising. When my mother added on a downstairs master bedroom after my dad died, she insisted on it having a door to the outside. Her reason? She said she would feel trapped if anyone ever broke in. She would only feel safe if she knew she could get out of the house quickly directly from the bedroom. Dr. Ford must have felt trapped in that bedroom in 1982.
 
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Apparently when he was nominated to the appeals court in 2006, the ABA had some reservations about Kav:
But in May 2006, as Republicans hoped to finally push Kavanaugh’s nomination across the finish line, the ABA downgraded its endorsement.

The group’s judicial investigator had recently interviewed dozens of lawyers, judges and others who had worked with Kavanaugh, the ABA announced at the time, and some of them raised red flags about “his professional experience and the question of his freedom from bias and open-mindedness.”

“One interviewee remained concerned about the nominee’s ability to be balanced and fair should he assume a federal judgeship,” the ABA committee chairman wrote to senators in 2006. “Another interviewee echoed essentially the same thoughts: ‘(He is) immovable and very stubborn and frustrating to deal with on some issues.’”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...s-dismissed-those-too/?utm_term=.c2d4aab9a7f8
 
Stacyhs said:
Dr. Ford wanting another door is not unsurprising. When my mother added on a downstairs master bedroom after my dad died, she insisted on it having a door to the outside. er reason? She said she would feel trapped if anyone ever broke in. She would only feel safe if she knew she could get out of the house quickly directly from the bedroom. Dr. Ford must have felt trapped in that bedroom in 1982.
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Not to digress, but I would fear an door directly from the outside into the bedroom could be used by intruders to break in. How many locks were on the door?
 
Bob001 said:
Apparently when he was nominated to the appeals court in 2006, the ABA had some reservations about Kav:

But in May 2006, as Republicans hoped to finally push Kavanaugh’s nomination across the finish line, the ABA downgraded its endorsement.

The group’s judicial investigator had recently interviewed dozens of lawyers, judges and others who had worked with Kavanaugh, the ABA announced at the time, and some of them raised red flags about “his professional experience and the question of his freedom from bias and open-mindedness.”

“One interviewee remained concerned about the nominee’s ability to be balanced and fair should he assume a federal judgeship,” the ABA committee chairman wrote to senators in 2006. “Another interviewee echoed essentially the same thoughts: ‘(He is) immovable and very stubborn and frustrating to deal with on some issues.’”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...s-dismissed-those-too/?utm_term=.c2d4aab9a7f8
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After K's rant about the Dems being out to get him and it being revenge for Clinton, I don't think he could be balanced and fair with anything Dem supported.
 
Bob001 said:
Not to digress, but I would fear an door directly from the outside into the bedroom could be used by intruders to break in. How many locks were on the door?
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There was a regular lock and a deadbolt. It was about how she felt, what gave her a sense of security. Having the door did. She also worried about fire as there was no egress from the upstairs and she could not go down the stairs quickly at her age.
 
Stacyhs said:
There was a regular lock and a deadbolt. It was about how she felt, what gave her a sense of security. Having the door did. She also worried about fire as there was no egress from the upstairs and she could not go down the stairs quickly at her age.
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Yeah, I can totally see that, and you're almost definitely right about "Dr. Ford must have felt trapped in that bedroom in 1982." Poor lady. PTSD can fade over the years, but some part it often sticks with you for forever.
 
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