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Nope. My response to Slings and Arrows ...SNIP...

Would you still support Kavanaugh if perjury (on salient judicial issues as has been alleged) is proven? Do you at least entertain the possibility that he is unsuitable regardless of the motivations of those arguing he is unsuitable? I'll answer your question if you answer mine. I did ask first.

SNIP

We weren't talking about perjury. We were talking about this absurd claim that Kavanaugh was making a dog whistle about birth control.

SNIP.

SNIP


Oh yes we were talking about perjury when you (and theprestige) decided not to answer a simple, very salient, question more than a week ago.
Your objection to them doing their job because it helps them politically to do their job is very telling.

If it is provable that he committed perjury during his previous confirmation, would you support him still?


And you here, in this very post, dishonestly dodge answering the question again by pretending it wasn't on topic, the EXACT behavior I reflected back at you and you subsequently called 'bad faith'. So was I acting in bad faith by not giving a meaningful answer before to the 'dog whistle' question, meaning you are also acting in bad faith here, or not?

SNIP

Answer what, tyr? You referred to some question from a week ago, but I have no idea what that question is, and I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase for it. Ask again, if you care that much.

I did ask again, then called you out on dodging again while quoting the post I originally asked in. I cited it as the exact behavior I was copying from you.

So it was the question I quoted your dodge of, called it a dodge of, then quoted the question a third time for you.

Would you still support Kavanaugh if perjury (on salient judicial issues as has been alleged) is proven?
 
I know that one shouldn't judge the proverbial book by its cover. But on the other hand, we're equipped with sensitive antennae to decode faces. Kavanaugh's weaselly, smarmy grin suggests to me that something's off about him. And when a nerve is touched he gives off vibes of deceitfulness. I know; hardly definitive evidence. But my Spidey senses... ;)
 
I know that one shouldn't judge the proverbial book by its cover. But on the other hand, we're equipped with sensitive antennae to decode faces. Kavanaugh's weaselly, smarmy grin suggests to me that something's off about him. And when a nerve is touched he gives off vibes of deceitfulness. I know; hardly definitive evidence. But my Spidey senses... ;)
You should telephone the Senate Majority Leader and let him know your spidey senses are tingling.
 
You should telephone the Senate Majority Leader and let him know your spidey senses are tingling.

McConnell already warned Trump against nominating Kavanaugh. Trump did not listen.

EDIT: Not that 'bad vibes' are a rational argument against it, nor was it McConnell's reasoning.
 
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So after she came out publicly, we do have some Republicans showing some hesitancy:

Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) called for the vote on Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court to be postponed until the woman accusing him of sexual assault be allowed to speak with senators on the Judiciary Committee.

Corker, who doesn't sit on the committee, told Politico on Sunday that the panel should wait until Christine Blasey Ford can meet with senators.

"I think that would be best for all involved, including the nominee,” Corker said of postponing the vote.

If Ford wants her side of the story to be heard, Corker said, “she should do so promptly.”

Corker’s remarks echo those of his fellow Republican colleague Sen. Jeff Flake (Ariz.).

Flake, who is a member of the committee, said Sunday that he is “not comfortable voting yes” until he hears from Ford.

Linky.

Barring further developments, I'm just reading this as them covering their bases. We already have Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas as an example.

And on the Anita Hill note, in terms of pure politics, there is a theory that her testimony led to more women being elected in 1992. So in sheer Machiavellian terms, Dems could want to press hard on this for gains in the election, even if it doesn't stop Kavanaugh.
 
I know that one shouldn't judge the proverbial book by its cover. But on the other hand, we're equipped with sensitive antennae to decode faces. Kavanaugh's weaselly, smarmy grin suggests to me that something's off about him. And when a nerve is touched he gives off vibes of deceitfulness. I know; hardly definitive evidence. But my Spidey senses... ;)
Intuition is probably part of our genetic inheritance. People with good intuition would obviously have a better chance of survival. I didn't like Gorsuch, but at least he didn't set off the creep factor meter.
 
So now we have a name and some details to put to the story.

I must admit, I don't know what I want to happen next.

On the one hand, it's a pretty serious charge. Seriously bad behavior. On the other hand, it was seriously bad behavior by a drunk 17 year old kid. I really don't think this is very significant to the qualifications of a 53 year old man.

But wait. Kavanaugh denies it. It's "alleged" bad behavior. It could just be made up out of whole cloth. We can't derail appointments just based on the word of a witness from 35 years earlier, with no real corroboration. (I say no "real" corroboration, in the sense that no one else has provided anything beyond hearsay. The fact that she told someone it happened isn't very good corroboration.) And, back on the other hand, it was a party. Apparently very loud music playing, at least two seventeen year old boys, both drunk, and at least one 15 year old girl, also drunk. At a suburban home, but one where the 15 year old girl didn't even know the names of the owners. Ah, life in a more innocent time before MADD became a political powerhouse, when parents left their kids home alone, the kids threw gigantic parties with drugs, sex, and rock and roll, and no one got arrested for underage drinking, or parental neglect. Those were a heck of a lot more common back then. You can get in trouble for that sort of thing now.


However, here we go again, they were not so common that, even 35 years later, a whole lot of people wouldn't remember it. I got drunk an awful lot at the same age in similar circumstances just a year or so earlier than young Mr. Kavanaugh. I remember most of the places I got drunk, and many of the people I got drunk with. In other words, there should be plenty of people who remember this party, and what with high school yearbooks being on-line, it's so easy to track people down. People ought to be able to be found that could, at the very least, verify the existence of a party where Kavanaugh, his friend Judge, and the accuser Ms. Ford were present.


Meanwhile, Judge Kavanaugh categorically denies that this incident ever happened. To me, the significance of that is not that it is probative in determining whether or not it happened, but if we find out it really did happen, that would mean that he lied about it, yesterday. In other words, we wouldn't be judging the 17 year old sexual assaulter, but rather we would be judging the 53 year old liar. If this thing happened, even if the details were not exactly as described by Ms. Ford, I am certain Kavanaugh could remember it, assuming he could remember it the morning after it happened. Therefore, a denial today would be a lie, today, not 35 years ago.


So is it a good thing that reporters will be scouring suburban Maryland, or Facebook posts from people who grew up there, for corroborating stories?


It gets complicated. I'm not sure what I want, but I expect that we will soon hear more details from other people, investigating teenaged life in the early 1980s.
 
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So now we have a name and some details to put to the story.

I must admit, I don't know what I want to happen next.

On the one hand, it's a pretty serious charge. Seriously bad behavior. On the other hand, it was seriously bad behavior by a drunk 17 year old kid. I really don't think this is very significant to the qualifications of a 53 year old man.

According to DOlt 45 himself, similar allegations against nonwhite people aged 14-16 in the late 80s is enough reason for the accused to remain in prison well into their 40s - even though they were exonerated both by DNA evidence and the confession of a known violent serial rapist. Were he consistent, rather than the brazen white supremacist that he is, he would withdraw this nomination immediately.

Just an interesting side note...

Personally, I'd much prefer not have attempted rapists nominated by confessed sexual assaulters, particularly if said nominee is, at best, extremely cagey on other actions, and clearly a political operative.
 
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According to DOlt 45 himself, similar allegations against nonwhite people aged 14-16 in the late 80s is enough reason for the accused to remain in prison well into their 40s - even though they were exonerated both by DNA evidence and the confession of a known violent serial rapist. Were he consistent, rather than the brazen white supremacist that he is, he would withdraw this nomination immediately.

Just an interesting side note...

Personally, I'd much prefer not have attempted rapists nominated by confessed sexual assaulters, particularly if said nominee is, at best, extremely cagey on other actions, and clearly a political operative.

Similar. You just referred to a woman being brutally raped, left for dead and put into a coma as similar to these allegations?

Damn....
 
Republican Senators are only worried about their re-election ... which is precisely what the Democrats are cleverly exploiting by publicizing these old allegations.
 
I read a piece in National Review about the allegations last night. It made a couple of interesting points.

One of the points was related to something I said. The author of the piece noted that while there might be debate about whether or not these charges are significant enough to deny him the position, there really doesn't need to be that debate. If the charges are true, then Kavanaugh has lied about them, and that lie would be serious enough to deny him the position.

The second point was that the notes from the therapist she told about the party had a discrepancy to her current story. The therapists' notes said she spoke of being attacked by four people, as opposed to the two in her current story. Ms. Ford explains the discrepancy as a mistake by the therapist. Four was the total number of boys at the party. What that meant to me was that it wasn't the loud, wild, party that I had pictured. Perhaps it was more of an afternoon gathering of some friends, where mom and dad left for the afternoon, and the kid invited some friends and they raided the liquor cabinet.

The rest of the piece discussed why the current level of information available was insufficient to conclude that the allegations were true. On this point, I think the author was premature. Until her name became public, there wasn't enough to go on to even investigate. Now that it is public, and there are general times and places that can be investigated, I suspect there will be some serious dirt-digging that is going to happen very soon, and we'll know more. Even though the alleged incident only involved an alleged gathering of a small number of friends 36 years ago, given the resources available today, that should provide enough leads to get some ancient rumors resurrected. Those glorious days of yesteryear may very well be replayed and debated on our internet feeds and TV screens.


Stay tuned for the soap opera. When it's all said and done, a great deal will be said, something might be done, and either the Kavanaugh nomination will be torpedoed, or Ms. Ford will be the latest "Jackie".
 
I don't think a video tape of Brett raping a girl would sway the Republicans. They will confirm him no matter what. They have no shame and only care about power.
 
I don't think a video tape of Brett raping a girl would sway the Republicans. They will confirm him no matter what. They have no shame and only care about power.

I doubt that but do you feel an unconfirmed allegation about the behavior of a some intoxicated teenagers from 30 something years ago should be enough to stop a nomination.
 
I read a piece in National Review about the allegations last night. It made a couple of interesting points.

One of the points was related to something I said. The author of the piece noted that while there might be debate about whether or not these charges are significant enough to deny him the position, there really doesn't need to be that debate. If the charges are true, then Kavanaugh has lied about them, and that lie would be serious enough to deny him the position.

The problem is how can that be resolved. If all three participants were drunk they may all think they correct in their recollection especially after so many years.

She may remember he tried to assault me while he might think when i became aware she did not want to continue I stopped. Similar situations have occurred to many.
 
I don't think a video tape of Brett raping a girl would sway the Republicans. They will confirm him no matter what. They have no shame and only care about power.

I think Dean Heller in Nevada and Susan Collins in Maine will be swayed enough to want to hear out the allegations. Heller is in a knife fight in Nevada and Collins has been known to break with the party on women's issues. Lisa Murkowski could break ranks as well.
 
What perjury?

I wonder do you now also feel that way about President Clinton's perjury. Should he have resigned or been impeached? I don't.

Yawn. Clinton perjured about an affair, the only law broken was the perjury itself.

Brett perjured about his use of stolen materials.
 
Now that it is public, and there are general times and places that can be investigated, I suspect there will be some serious dirt-digging that is going to happen very soon, and we'll know more.


This is Christine Ford's story so far:

When?
Sometime during the summer of 1982 -- exact date unknown.

Place?
At someone's house -- don't know the address or the owner's name.

Who was there?
Boy's that were drinking.

First mention of the incident?
Thirty years later (2012) during a marriage counseling session with her husband and therapist. Kavanaugh's name is never brought up during the session, only a reference to drunken boy's.

Too bad Mueller's not available, this investigation would be right up his alley.
 
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