Pardoning Nixon, a retrospective

[Brainster]

I wonder how well Ford would have been able to carry out the office of president with such a trial going on. Not that he did a great number of things. Here is a link to major events of his presidency: https://millercenter.org/president/gerald-ford/key-events

The inflation fighting actions may have been of significance, however I am not sure of what the long term effects may have been.

The inflation-fighting largely consisted of WIN buttons (Whip Inflation Now). How individual people were supposed to fight inflation is beyond me--I suppose accept lower raises and not charge more for goods?

Inflation would not get under control until Carter appointed Paul Volcker to head the Federal Reserve.

 

[Babbylonian]

I wonder how well Ford would have been able to carry out the office of president with such a trial going on. Not that he did a great number of things. Here is a link to major events of his presidency: https://millercenter.org/president/gerald-ford/key-events

The inflation fighting actions may have been of significance, however I am not sure of what the long term effects may have been.

Given that Ford is the only POTUS who was not elected to either executive office, he should have been willing to dedicate his presidency to justice, and justice would have best been served by Nixon doing time in a federal penitentiary.

All the talk about wanting to put Nixon and Watergate in the rear-view mirror is rationalized nonsense. Either the law matters and applies to all citizens or it doesn't, and the latter brings with it huge problems, including insane Oval Office occupants who believe that they're bulletproof.

 

[Crawtator]

I don't think it is. What has been a good use of the pardon power? What are the best examples of the pardon power?

I believe, at least from my perspective, the pardoning of the conscientious objectors by Truman and Ford were probably examples of "good pardons" but some may disagree. Furthermore, I think that the pardoning of people convicted of prohibition violation by Roosevelt was a good move as well. Both of these are clearly opinion, though.

 

[jimbob]

I believe, at least from my perspective, the pardoning of the conscientious objectors by Truman and Ford were probably examples of "good pardons" but some may disagree. Furthermore, I think that the pardoning of people convicted of prohibition violation by Roosevelt was a good move as well. Both of these are clearly opinion, though.

This seems a good example from the UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_prerogative_of_mercy

In 2001 two inmates at HMP Prescoed, south Wales, received early release under the Royal prerogative of mercy when they saved the life of the manager of the prison farm when he was attacked and gored by a captive wild boar.[6]

 

[LSSBB]

The inflation-fighting largely consisted of WIN buttons (Whip Inflation Now). How individual people were supposed to fight inflation is beyond me--I suppose accept lower raises and not charge more for goods?

Inflation would not get under control until Carter appointed Paul Volcker to head the Federal Reserve.

He did take some related legislative action, however I don't currently ha e the bandwidth to live through it all.

 

[dudalb]

It's an academic discussion, the President's power to pardon is specified in the Constiution. Good luck in amendming the constitution to get it taken away.

 

[dudalb]

A lot of the times a pardon is issued after the individual has served his or her's time;it's main purpose it allow them to vote again, which felons in the us Cannot do.

 

[Trebuchet]

The joke at the time was that Ford and Nixon bumped elbows as one was on the way into the White House and the other on the way out. "Pardon me," said Nixon.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I believe, at least from my perspective, the pardoning of the conscientious objectors by Truman and Ford were probably examples of "good pardons" but some may disagree. Furthermore, I think that the pardoning of people convicted of prohibition violation by Roosevelt was a good move as well. Both of these are clearly opinion, though.

Ford's "amnesty" was of use only to deserters. The conditions on dodgers were not worth turning yourself in.

The services were, on the QT, mustering out deserters, anyway. Before Ford's amnesty, a deserter merely turned himself in to one of several bases dedicated to the process. They would stay under the armed forces' version of "house arrest" for two days and then receive a not honorable but not dishonorable discharge. (There are formal military jargon terms for these things and some military geek can fill them in if anyone cares.) Ford came in and formalized the process but added "take a loyalty oath" and "perform two years of community service". Carter came along and did away with the loyalty oath and community service, but didn't make his amnesty available to deserters, who were still left to military justice (which was quite content to go back to their old policy of pencil-whipping them off the roles).

The military's intention? To clean up the records. A returned deserter is no longer a deserter. This is one of the reasons it's next to impossible to get accurate figures on dodgers and deserters. For dodgers, there were loads of guys in Canada who went "just in case" they got called up. For deserters, you have to get the records from the various services and they keep ridiculous records. The people searching also have ridiculous standards for what they count. It's a mess, and I've made this derail too long, anyway.

I cede control of the thread back to the regular posters. I vote "do away with presidential pardons". This is probably ironic because I'm one of the recipients of Carter's amnesty! Take it away from the individual who happens to be in charge that year and turn it over to a committee that DOES NOT include the DoJ (the home of the current pardon-recommending body). Oh and take it away from Governors, too, on the same basis.

 

[Babbylonian]

...and then receive a not honorable but not dishonorable discharge. (There are formal military jargon terms for these things and some military geek can fill them in if anyone cares.)

It's usually called a "general discharge." The discharges under Ford to which you're referring were called "clemency discharges."

 

[Venom]

An underrated president!

 

[The Norseman]

Given the current political climate and my sense of optimism, impeachment and ex-presidential indictment have been on my mind. Of course, the Nixon example comes to mind, being the only true precedent we have.

I am curious to what are people's thoughts on Ford's pardoning of Nixon. The argument was that Nixon needed to be pardoned so that the nation could move on and not dwell on old wounds as the trials dragged out. Also, it would be bad for the nation to have a former president in a jail cell.

This was before my time, so my opinion is not very firm. Generally, I found that excuse pretty weak and Nixon essentially got away with being a criminal.

Well, the exact same excuse was used when the 2008 financial catastrophe hit: bankers and execs weren't even tried for the massive fraud perpetrated and the excuses given were along the same lines "let's put this behind us, it hurts the country too much to prosecute..." blah blah.

It didn't work with Nixon (as an excuse) most especially since he was the "law and order" president who got caught committing crimes and got away with it.

I don't really recall but I wonder if some of the same excuses were being put forth for Clinton's impeachment — even though they went ahead with it anyway.

If the government is truly serious about having no one above the law and that lawbreakers are punished in this country then we really do need to see it happening to those who cause significant trauma and destruction for everyone in the country.

It simply has to happen. It's so apparent now and has been apparent for decades of the double standard between the wealthy criminals and the middle-class and poor ones that Trump must be impeached and tried and every other governmental official who has done illegal things ESPECIALLY against the people of this country must be tried and (with proper procedure) convicted.

 

[lionking]

The whole idea of presidential pardons is ridiculous to me. It’s just like the belief that presidents can’t be tried for crimes they may have committed. These ideas should not have a place in what should be the paragon of democracy.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Pardons are indispensable: most of the plots of '24' wouldn't work without them.

 

[lionking]

Pardons are indispensable: most of the plots of '24' wouldn't work without them.

Very good point. I loved 24 to death.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Regardless this is all noise in the wind for one simple reason.

As of this writing Donald Trump has pardoned seven and communed four.
During his term Barack Obama pardoned 212 and communed 1,715
During his term George W. Bush pardoned, communed or rescinded 200.
During his term Bill Clinton pardoned, communed, or rescinded 459.
During his term George H.W. Bush pardoned, communed, or rescinded 77 people.
During his term Ronald Reagan pardoned, communed, or rescinded 406 people.
During his term Jimmy Carter pardoned, communed, or rescinded 566 (as well as the blanket pardon for the ~200,000 people who dodged the draft.)

Both sides do it. Ergo no political capital for a particular "side" can be gained Ergo nobody is ever going to actually take action on this.

 

[Upchurch]

Regardless this is all noise in the wind for one simple reason.

As of this writing Donald Trump has pardoned seven and communed four.
During his term Barack Obama pardoned 212 and communed 1,715
During his term George W. Bush pardoned, communed or rescinded 200.
During his term Bill Clinton pardoned, communed, or rescinded 459.
During his term George H.W. Bush pardoned, communed, or rescinded 77 people.
During his term Ronald Reagan pardoned, communed, or rescinded 406 people.
During his term Jimmy Carter pardoned, communed, or rescinded 566 (as well as the blanket pardon for the ~200,000 people who dodged the draft.)

Both sides do it. Ergo no political capital for a particular "side" can be gained Ergo nobody is ever going to actually take action on this.

Yeah, but how many do it to keep people from ratting out the President?

 

[Loss Leader]

I am curious to what are people's thoughts on Ford's pardoning of Nixon. The argument was that Nixon needed to be pardoned so that the nation could move on and not dwell on old wounds as the trials dragged out. Also, it would be bad for the nation to have a former president in a jail cell.

I think Ford did the right thing largely because Nixon (eventually) did the right thing and resigned.

Nixon broke every law that ever existed in order to become President. But then he was ... pretty good. He didn't seek to divide the country in a culture war. He started to wind down our foreign wars. He went to China, put a man on the moon and founded the EPA. He didn't cripple LBJ's social reforms. He could have been a real conservative jerkward, but ended up being surprisingly progressive.

In contrast, **** Donald Trump. **** him right in the ear.

 

[JoeMorgue]

So was just yet another "We have to burn the system down to prevent another Trump" thread?

I wish people would say that when they start threads.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think Ford did the right thing largely because Nixon (eventually) did the right thing and resigned.

Nixon broke every law that ever existed in order to become President. But then he was ... pretty good. He didn't seek to divide the country in a culture war. He started to wind down our foreign wars. He went to China, put a man on the moon and founded the EPA. He didn't cripple LBJ's social reforms. He could have been a real conservative jerkward, but ended up being surprisingly progressive.

Of course that was after he sabotaged the peace negotiations as a presidential candidate. So treason is not exactly new or uncomfortable for republicans if it helps them win.