Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

[phiwum]

Sure. But speech about political matters is generally the most protected speech. Do you understand why?



Sure. Those people have specific fiduciary duties, and those specific fiduciary duties can be violated by speech.

But no such duties attend to foreigners just for being foreigners.

In general, speech about political matters is the most protected. In the case in which the party is representing a foreign (and somewhat hostile) country in order to benefit a candidate, I'm thinking this is less protected. Especially given that the benefit appears to be hacked emails.

But, hey, let's wait and see. These issues will come out in the end.

 

[kellyb]

There should be a term or a word to describe this desperate incredibly obtuse behavior, but I can't think of it.

It's this.

 

[theprestige]

Pretty sure this meeting isn't the only thing the accusation of conspiracy hinges on.

The accusation doesn't appear to hinge on this meeting at all.

 

[Ziggurat]

In general, speech about political matters is the most protected. In the case in which the party is representing a foreign (and somewhat hostile) country in order to benefit a candidate, I'm thinking this is less protected. Especially given that the benefit appears to be hacked emails.

According to all publicly available information, the Trump Tower meeting had nothing to do with hacked emails. How many times do we need to go over this?

 

[Fudbucker]

According to all publicly available information, the Trump Tower meeting had nothing to do with hacked emails. How many times do we need to go over this?

Which meeting? There were apparently two. Or maybe more.

And why would Trump feel the need to lie about knowing the meeting took place? That is extremely suspicious.

 

[Trebuchet]

I'd be surprised if Don Jr. and Jared weren't indicted by Mueller at some point for at least conspiracy and for lying to Congress.

With Trump himself, his position as POTUS complicates matters. Mueller probably won't indict him, but he will issue a report that lists crimes for Congress and perhaps a recommendation that they prepare Articles of Impeachment.

Nixon was an "unindicted co-conspirator".

 

[Ziggurat]

In the matter at hand, it is the possibility of seeking something of value from a foreign government to benefit a political campaign.

The laws in question make no distinction between foreign governments and foreign private individuals. And if any form of speech which could have useful information is a "thing of value", then the law is overly broad and unconstitutional.

Without any citations, research or case law to back your assertion, that I have seen

I have given a citation earlier to the Volokh blog on the issue.

 

[acbytesla]

The laws in question make no distinction between foreign governments and foreign private individuals. And if any form of speech which could have useful information is a "thing of value", then the law is overly broad and unconstitutional.



I have given a citation earlier to the Volokh blog on the issue.

Thank you for your most expert legal opinion Justice Warren.

Present legal precedent that opposition research is not something of value or that it is protected free speech in a similar situation.

 

[acbytesla]

Nixon was an "unindicted co-conspirator".

True. In fact in multiple court cases they would name the defendant or defendants and a single unindicted co-conspirator. It was only later that we all learned that it was Nixon.

 

[LSSBB]

The laws in question make no distinction between foreign governments and foreign private individuals. And if any form of speech which could have useful information is a "thing of value", then the law is overly broad and unconstitutional.



I have given a citation earlier to the Volokh blog on the issue.

Didn't see your link earlier, thanks.

Best I can get from that is "seems overbroad", i.e. we will see what the court says.

 

[phiwum]

According to all publicly available information, the Trump Tower meeting had nothing to do with hacked emails. How many times do we need to go over this?

But the Trump Tower meeting had everything to do with a foreign government offering goods in order to get their preferred candidate elected. First, are you saying this is legal? Second, are you saying this is totally okay?

 

[Cain]

Because the real question is, what is it worth to you?

Is that the question? The Russians were not looking to sell this information. Trump's "buying temperature" is the quid pro quo. We help you, you soften relations if you're elected. Trump could believe he's not compromised because he was going to do that anyway. Critics of the president are pointing to the 2016 RNC, saying the party softened its position on arming Ukraine at the behest of Trump. The main take away here is that Trump negotiates the best deals. He's trying to honor his committments to Russia, but the dishonest Dems are trying to muck everything up.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Is that the question? The Russians were not looking to sell this information. Trump's "buying temperature" is the quid pro quo. We help you, you soften relations if you're elected. Trump could believe he's not compromised because he was going to do that anyway. Critics of the president are pointing to the 2016 RNC, saying the party softened its position on arming Ukraine at the behest of Trump. The main take away here is that Trump negotiates the best deals. He's trying to honor his committments to Russia, but the dishonest Dems are trying to muck everything up.

This started out as one Cain and ended as the other.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

"Why isn’t the FBI giving Andrew McCabe text messages to Judicial Watch or appropriate governmental authorities. FBI said they won’t give up even one (I may have to get involved, DO NOT DESTROY). What are they hiding? McCabe wife took big campaign dollars from Hillary people....."

".....Will the FBI ever recover it’s once stellar reputation, so badly damaged by Comey, McCabe, Peter S and his lover, the lovely Lisa Page, and other top officials now dismissed or fired? So many of the great men and women of the FBI have been hurt by these clowns and losers!"

 

[Andy_Ross]

trump Tweets

"The big story that the Fake News Media refuses to report is lowlife Christopher Steele’s many meetings with Deputy A.G. Bruce Ohr and his beautiful wife, Nelly. It was Fusion GPS that hired Steele to write the phony & discredited Dossier, paid for by Crooked Hillary & the DNC...."

"....Do you believe Nelly worked for Fusion and her husband STILL WORKS FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF “JUSTICE.” I have never seen anything so Rigged in my life. Our A.G. is scared stiff and Missing in Action. It is all starting to be revealed - not pretty. IG Report soon? Witch Hunt!"

 

[acbytesla]

Is that the question? The Russians were not looking to sell this information. Trump's "buying temperature" is the quid pro quo. We help you, you soften relations if you're elected. Trump could believe he's not compromised because he was going to do that anyway. Critics of the president are pointing to the 2016 RNC, saying the party softened its position on arming Ukraine at the behest of Trump. The main take away here is that Trump negotiates the best deals. He's trying to honor his committments to Russia, but the dishonest Dems are trying to muck everything up.

So here's the thing why selling the dirt is different than getting it for free.

If Ivan calls up the Trump campaign and says I've got dirt on Hillary Clinton for the very cheap price of only one million dollars. Private individuals are paying for it.

As bad as that is, it is infinitely better than if Ivan comes to the campaign and offers to give that dirt for later considerations. Clearly the need for a meeting is to arrange an unknown quid pro quo which means policy. However contrary to how Trump operates, that isn't his to sell. That belongs to the American people. He is merely the custodian.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
But when it comes to Trump, any novel legal theory seems to be acceptable as long as it can be used to nail Trump, and who cares about the implications of adopting it?

Riiight, because Trump has such a stellar history people are really grasping at straws to find something Dear Leader has done wrong.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

At no point was the nature of the goods explained. It could have been someone sharing information from personal experience.

Is this hypothetical?

Trump gave it away they knew what the Russians were offering when he announced he'd have a big announcement about "Crooked Hilary" in a few days.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Is this hypothetical?

Trump gave it away they knew what the Russians were offering when he announced he'd have a big announcement about "Crooked Hilary" in a few days.

Neither the emails with trump Jr nor his prelude to a big announcement ever mention emails. The most details is that it was something about Russians. The nature of the big deal is completely amorphous.

It never says Humpty Dumpty is an egg.

 

[acbytesla]

Neither the emails with trump Jr nor his prelude to a big announcement ever mention emails. The most details is that it was something about Russians. The nature of the big deal is completely amorphous.

It never says Humpty Dumpty is an egg.

You can pretend that Trump wasn't speaking about the fruits of that meeting, but we all know including you that you're being disingenuous.