portlandatheist
Illuminator
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Nice Tu Quoque, the fact that the NYT is being OK with racism and bigotry doesn't negate anything about Trump and his supporter's bigotry.
Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2
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Nice Tu Quoque, the fact that the NYT is being OK with racism and bigotry doesn't negate anything about Trump and his supporter's bigotry.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Clinton made one insult and it cements your vote but Trump has spewed venomous insults from day one of his campaign and you still vote for him?
Come one, stop being dishonest. You never considered voting for Clinton. Her "deplorable" comment really made no difference to anyone's vote.
But Trump was just joking. Ask Lying Ted, it was all very good natured.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
That doesn't make any sense. If they were undecideds, they wouldn't be Trump supporters, let alone the half she was referring to. So, she wasn't insulting the undecideds who share your sentiments.
And if the insult was not directed at you, you must have been offended that the insult was aimed at someone else. Why would that insult be the final straw and not any of the many Trump deals out on a regular basis?
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That doesn't make any sense. If they were undecideds, they wouldn't be Trump supporters, let alone the half she was referring to. So, she wasn't insulting the undecideds who share your sentiments.
And if the insult was not directed at you, you must have been offended that the insult was aimed at someone else. Why would that insult be the final straw and not any of the many Trump deals out on a regular basis?
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Maybe feeling insulted on behalf of the actual Nazis who supported Trump, and who he didn't disown?
davefoc
Philosopher
I'll take a shot at answering in the way that Trump's lawyers might. Lying in public statements under these circumstances is not a crime. Trump, et al were lying to cover up embarrassing but legal actions.
Skeptic Ginger explained why there might be crimes associated with the meeting with the Russians and in theory I imagine her arguments were correct. I don't think they are enough to bring down Trump on this. The part of the electorate that supports Trump is pretty much OK with him cheating to get elected and while the Trump base holds the Republicans are not likely to act on something like this to get rid of Trump. If Trump falls some kind of quid pro quo with the Russians might be necessary although maybe just showing entanglements that could be biasing Trump towards pro Russian policies might make things tough for Trump.
As an aside, Don Jr. seems to be in a bit of trouble on these facts. He stone cold lied to congress, but so did Sessions and he's still bubbling along. But under different circumstances somebody that did what he did might be in very serious trouble.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh bull ****. Nobody decided on that one remark. Trump insulted everyone day in and day out and Hillary makes a single insulting remark about some of the Trump supporters and that is the last straw?
Get real.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
I think it's very telling that Trump's lawyers don't want the Mueller investigators to ask him any questions on obstruction of justice. Now, just why would that be?
I know, I know...it's just a perjury trap. Hmmm...as long as he tells the truth, how can he commit perjury? Oh dear, I just answered my own question, didn't I?
I know, I know...it's just a perjury trap. Hmmm...as long as he tells the truth, how can he commit perjury? Oh dear, I just answered my own question, didn't I?
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Who the vote would be for was, very possibly. It likely did make some difference in their efforts to increase their manufactured outrage vote total. The decades of GOP slander and false propaganda have certainly left a mark, though, to the point where what substance there actually is there is largely obscured by it.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
This is not something I ever said, but only something you imagined, because it's easier for you to imagine a stereotype than actually pay attention to someone who's trying to have a conversation with you.
In fact, the "deplorables" comment came too late to influence my vote much one way or the other.
I find all candidates to be similarly offensive -- not in the specifics of how they give offense, but in the fact that they do give offense in one way or another constantly. The distinction you insist must be in effect is not actually a distinction I make.
Stop insulting me.
I did, actually. I just did it a lot earlier in the campaign.
No, that's not quite true. Very late in the campaign I attended a fan convention full of progressives. One of the panel speakers talked very movingly about the implications of a Trump presidency. Listening to him talk, I got the idea that a lot of really good people would be very deeply wounded by a Trump presidency. Not by Trump's actions as president - I believed then, as now, that the Trump administration would be mostly harmless in the long term. But that the idea of a Trump presidency, and the emotional strain of having to live through it, would take a severe toll on a lot of people that didn't deserve it. I thought pretty hard about whether I wanted to be a part of inflicting that on them.
Then I remembered that I lived in California, and my vote wouldn't really matter either way. Hillary was going to get all my electors whether or not I voted for her. Trump would win or lose regardless of what I did. And there were still other considerations. I honestly believed that even though these good people would be wounded by the idea of a Trump presidency, the wounds would not be grave, and they would heal.
Now, a year and a half later, I'm not so sure. It's no comfort at all to realize that I'm not the one encouraging and feeding their distress.
So, yeah. I've considered voting for Hillary at several different points in my life and her political career.
You know nothing about me, and should stop pretending like you do.
It didn't make a difference to my vote, anyway. But then I never claimed it had. I think it probably made some difference to some people's votes, but I don't consider it an important point. If you think otherwise, that's fine with me.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Okay, undecideds who share your sentiments about the political establishment, who had, unlike you, not yet made up their minds, and whose minds were made up by the insult.
My comment still holds:
* "you", in the general sense.
Ambrosia
Good of the Fods
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Might I suggest that you take a step away from domestic issues and look at Trumps presidency with a longer lens.
I don't care who you voted for, or how you voted, or what flavour of politicians you generally support, or whether you prefer red arguments or blue arguments. Trump has been and is being an absolute disaster for the USA.
In the longer term he is emboldening racists and bigots, he's getting SCOTUS justices elected who will likely slant legal precedent towards the "Christian" right, he's causing trade wars where there need to be no trade wars which will cost the US economy a lot, he's pushed through tax cuts which benefit a small subset of the country and which will need to be paid for by future generations of Americans, he's withdrawn the US from the Paris climate accords and rescinded lots of environmental protections, which will help accelerate climate change and he's soft on Russia.
If you lack the perspicacity to see that he is in fact causing long term harm to the USA and is likely to be remembered by history in the same bracket as Nixon, then you might want to look again at what is going on.
He's not just a terrible joke president, he is causing the USA long term harm by his actions.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Whataboutism:another main weapon of the Trump supporters.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
But that is fine, as long as we get tax cuts and a Supreme court justice.....
it's the inalbity to see that short term gains are not worth the long term damage that Trump is doing that has caused me to write off the GOP for the foreseeable future. They have made a deal with devil, forgetting that the devil always come around to collect...
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Lying to Congress (whether or not you are under oath) is a criminal act. Doing so because the truth might embarrass you is beyond stupid, and is not an excuse for lying.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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I was responding to the discussion that the same FEC law that kellyb posted a picture of applied to Clinton hiring Steele.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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Donnie Jr is sticking to the obvious lie that the Tower meeting was a bait and switch and really was about adoptions. It's like a toddler with cake all over his face swearing the dog ate the cake.
Laura Ingraham and Hanity are repeating the talking point over and over that Clinton violated FEC rules by paying Steele and Trump did not because collusion isn't a crime and anyone would have gone to that meeting to get opposition research on their competitor.
They don't seem to notice the flaws in those talking points. Or they do know but their minions won't. I'm of the belief that Ingraham, Hanity, and Trump because he believes them, all actually do believe their talking points.
Laura Ingraham and Hanity are repeating the talking point over and over that Clinton violated FEC rules by paying Steele and Trump did not because collusion isn't a crime and anyone would have gone to that meeting to get opposition research on their competitor.
They don't seem to notice the flaws in those talking points. Or they do know but their minions won't. I'm of the belief that Ingraham, Hanity, and Trump because he believes them, all actually do believe their talking points.
Cain
Straussian
4.1% GDP growth.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
I did misread what you wrote in that first quote. I inferred that it was the "last straw" for you. Mea culpa.
I do, in all honesty, find it very difficult to believe that anyone who voted for Trump would have ever considered voting for Clinton...and vice-versa.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Eh, I voted for Hillary and I gave all the main 4 candidates as fair an assessment as I could, which means that I did consider Trump. The results of my assessment, of course, led me to the conclusion that he was the most undesirable Presidential candidate that I'm aware of, ever, given his character, choices, and platform. Were it not for the very real possibility that he would be elected, given the nature of the Republican Party, I would have voted for Jill Stein in an attempt to elect a relatively harmless do nothing candidate and to help try to break the stranglehold that the current two main parties have on politics. Regardless, Hillary was the best actual candidate by far, but would rather certainly have been stuck with an ever increasing Republican congressional majority because of the nature of their propaganda and lies, and it still would have been better in the present and possibly the future than Trump.
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