Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[manifesto]

Hank, If you have a problem with even bothering to read witness statements from 30+ years after the fact, then don't. What you call gish gallop is actually called being thorough with presenting the evidence. Real students of the case organize and save facts, not past internet arguments like you or David Von Pein do.

P.S. Sometimes 30+ year old witness testimony that may seem questionable turns out to be true, like the later 90's+ statements of the DPD officers who claimed to have looked at a wallet that may have had Oswald's identification, which was later fueled by CBS rediscovering a tape taken at the scene of the Tippit shooting showing two Police officers looking at a wallet (in a similar, but not identical, fashion to the Oswald wallet in evidence) with apparently no civilian standing nearby who it could have belonged to.

And it certainly wasn’t Tippits since this was taken from him at the Hospital, looking completely different than the one studied by the Police at the scene of the shooting.

And, lets not forget the third wallet, the one left behind at Marinas place in the Paines home.

Lots of many wallets it is.

 

[Axxman300]

Theft is when something is taken from somebody else and that person doesn't have that thing anymore. Piracy is when you breath next to somebody selling air.

This is the "She was asking for it" defense.

 

[bknight]

And it certainly wasn’t Tippits since this was taken from him at the Hospital, looking completely different than the one studied by the Police at the scene of the shooting.

And, lets not forget the third wallet, the one left behind at Marinas place in the Paines home.

Lots of many wallets it is.

Citation required that all of them belonged to LHO, not just a wallet that had been dropped on the street.

Secondly if you are suggesting that the DPD "planted" one or more of those wallets then a citation is required also.

 

[MicahJava]

This is the "She was asking for it" defense.

 

[HSienzant]

Ever wondered why there is so few independents writing on this forum?

I joined a fraternity in college, but that's the only association or group I ever joined. I am otherwise independent. What's your complaint, really?

That everyone here that questions you must be shills paid by the CIA because there's really no other reason for anyone to oppose your arguments?

That's the veiled argument I'm seeing by what you wrote above.

Hank

 

[MicahJava]

Citation required that all of them belonged to LHO, not just a wallet that had been dropped on the street.

Secondly if you are suggesting that the DPD "planted" one or more of those wallets then a citation is required also.

A wallet that "just" dropped on the street near the scene of the Tippit shooting, belonging to neither Tippit nor any known witness, that happened to look similar to Oswald's wallet?

 

[bknight]

A wallet that "just" dropped on the street near the scene of the Tippit shooting, belonging to neither Tippit nor any known witness, that happened to look similar to Oswald's wallet?

That certainly is not anymore nefarious than most of the statements you post.

 

[bknight]

I joined a fraternity in college, but that's the only association or group I ever joined. I am otherwise independent. What's your complaint, really?

That everyone here that questions you must be shills paid by the CIA because there's really no other reason for anyone to oppose your arguments?

That's the veiled argument I'm seeing by what you wrote above.

Hank

My check is awfully late this month.

 

[Axxman300]

So people shouldn't get paid for their work if they love it?

If I love working in the coal mine, Mr. Peabody's Coal Company shouldn't issue me a paycheck at the end of the week?

Hank

If the information in those CT books isn't worth paying for then by definition the entire book and the information therein is worthless.

I bought CT books back in the day. The irony here is that I am now defending guys like Lifton and Mars and their RIGHT to earn money from their work while MJ is gloating about ripping them off. If he respects their work he should shell out the money to support their work.

By pirating books he is suppressing research into the very topic about which he claims to be trying to find the ultimate truth. You buy the book so that the publisher green-lights the next JFK-CT book. If the book doesn't make money because it was ripped off then the publisher moves on to another topic.

Put it this way; the government isn't suppressing the truth, torrent pirates are.

 

[HSienzant]

Hank, the arrow next to the dot signifying the small head wound is more detail than just the dot alone.

Yes, I was the one who pointed out the arrow to you. And pointed out it's erroneous in that it points to the left side of the head, the wrong way. The actual bullet exited the right side of the head.

The autopsy pathologists said what the arrow signified.

What did they say it signified?

What do you think the upwards pointing arrow means?

The bullet path. Are you saying the pathologists said it represented something else?

Why do you disagree with the autopsy pathologists?

I don't and I'm not. I quoted Boswell to establish you're putting too much emphasis on the drawing. He said it wasn't intended for the purpose you're using it. I agree with him.

Also, you forgot this:

2 AM 11/23/1963 teletype - [...]TOTAL BODY XRAY AND AUTOPSY REVEALED ONE BULLET ENTERED BACK OF HEAD AND THEREAFTER EMERGED THROUGH TOP OF SKULL. PIECE OF SKULL MEASURING TEN BY SIX POINT FIVE CENTIMETERS LATER FLOWN IN FROM DALLAS HOSPITAL AND XRAYS BETHESDA DISCLOSED MINUTE METAL FRAGMENTS IN THIS PIECE WHERE BULLET EMERGED FROM SKULL.": https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/pdf/md149.pdf

"Back of head" is not equal to EOP. I don't see any specific location cited for the location of the entry wound in what you cite from the FBI. I don't see any mention of the EOP. It's unclear why you're reminding me of that, unless it's to disprove a conspiracy argument. I forget whether you or Manifesto argued the Harper fragment came from the back of the head, but the part highlighted says differently. It says it came from the top of the head. Can you guys work it out between yourselves and get back to us?

Hank

 

[Axxman300]

If a nations academia and press are ”paid” by the very special interests that benefits from the cover up of the JFK assassination, unpaid research is the only recourse left.

It is only unpaid because certain people steal the work instead of paying for it.

I find it fascinating that these two purveyors of truth and justice condone theft. Hard to take the high road when when you lack basic morals.

 

[HSienzant]

A wallet that "just" dropped on the street near the scene of the Tippit shooting, belonging to neither Tippit nor any known witness, that happened to look similar to Oswald's wallet?

I'd ask you to establish the bolded above, but you can't.

We both know that.

Hank

 

[Axxman300]

I believe that MicahJava is trying to illuminate that ”paid” research has a tendency to confirm the ”payers” implicit/explicit expectations.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

No, he got in trouble for posting links to a pirated copy of a JFK Conspiracy Theory book.

He's ripping off folks on your side of the fence.

 

[manifesto]

I'd be interested to see how many other famous cases would completely collapse (in conspiracy land) when subjected to the scrutiny that conspiracy theorists have subjected the Kennedy case to.

Yes, it would and there is a growing awareness of all the people being convicted for a crime they didn’t commit. Have a look at, The Innocense Project. Especially the one in Dallas County during the very long tenure under DA Henry Wade.

He leads the national count on convicting innocent people by a good margin. It was under his watch and guidance Oswald was arraigned and framed for the murders of JFK and officer Tippit.

ALL the culpatory evidence against Oswald listed by DA Wade to the international press was later retracted being faulty (bogus).

Years later chief of DPD, Jesse Curry, admits to interviewer Tom Johnson that:

"We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, and never did. Nobody's yet been able to put him in the building (Texas School Book Depository) with a gun in his hand."​

But I guess he knew nothing of the investigation, just being the Chief of Police in Dallas?

How ironclad was the paper trail connecting Ted Bundy to his murder weapons?

I do not know, but I certainly doubt that Bundy was innocent, since I have never seen any suggestion anywhere to the contrary.

Have you?

Edited by Agatha: 

Material pertaining to the Manson murders snipped

[



Nothing is like it seems ... or should I say, everything is actually like it seems?

Oh the irony.

 

[bknight]

Been there, done that. Now, imagine debating a whole pack of rabid nominal ”skeptics” all at once.

Ever wondered why there is so few independents writing on this forum?

I have immense patience.

I'm an independent individual, I joined this forum on an invitation of another member. I was skeptical and asked if I should wear my tin foil hat, he jokingly said that most of the people here are straight up. After joining I more or less stumbled onto this forum, not seeking to fight any battles.
I don't believe the Government is capable of hiding a secret like you and MJ want to believe happened for much more than a couple of days. If one wants to keep a secret, then tell no one. If two or more are involved in a secret, that secret won't remain secret for long.

But after reading the all the logical fallacies, I had to stick my nose in and give it a whack. Hank and Axxman300 have many more links they can cite than I and I was impressed by the revelation of being a CT and reverting back to reality.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[HSienzant]

Anybody on this forum willing to mark a diagram explaining how a bullet entering 4-5 inches above the EOP, at z312 from the angle of the Depository could create a beveled exit anatomically higher than the entrance, while also explaining how both beveled holes could be seen in the photographs of the skull taken after the brain had been removed?

You mean nobody can explain your begged misinterpretation of the evidence, and you find that significant? It is, but not for the reason you think.

A "frontal" brain removal procedure requires a lot of the frontal bone being separated down to the forehead, so if you wanted to say the brain was removed without even touching the back of the head then that causes some issues for cowlick theorists wanting to say the skull photos show a beveled exit notch in the frontal bone in the foreground, because of trajectory issues as well as issues with how to fit the earliest documentary evidence and witness evidence saying the beveled exit they reported on a skull fragment matching the top of the head was anatomically higher than the beveled entrance hole they reported in the back of the head.

Begged question is begged.

Also, as I asked earlier, is it even possible to do a "frontal" brain removal procedure without separating a large portion of the left side of the skull? Because no matter how you interpret the skull photographs, they show a lot of the left side of the skull intact. Where is the room to remove the brain.

Same thing.

Hank

 

[manifesto]

A wallet that "just" dropped on the street near the scene of the Tippit shooting, belonging to neither Tippit nor any known witness, that happened to look similar to Oswald's wallet?

Yes, lets see som well balanced explanatications from the knights of the Mighty Church, of this little gem.

Who’s wallet was it?

 

[HSienzant]

You snipped it. Those were two of the earliest pieces of evidence unmistakably indicating that they concluded the beveled exit notch on the skull fragment they received fit a location anatomically higher than the small head wound. Other testimonies from the autopsy participants went into further detail saying the same thing.

Anatomically higher is meaningless. We can see JFK's head is tilted down at a significant degree just before the bullet impact, not level, so of course the wound exit would appear higher than if his head was level and he was facing forward.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

I suspected he took the lines out of context.

That's a CT go-to move.

Hank

 

[manifesto]

No, he got in trouble for posting links to a pirated copy of a JFK Conspiracy Theory book.

He's ripping off folks on your side of the fence.

Wow. How many dollars has he/she earned so far? Eight?