The Trump Presidency VII

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acbytesla said:
I'd just love to hear any coherent reason for why you support Trump. Anything that shows a depth of understanding of his policies and how they are something that others should get behind.

Instead it amounts to nothing more than sticking it to liberals and Democrats.
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I’ve given plenty of reasons. That you need more, proves my point again.
 
Arcade22 said:
That's not a threat to national security.

Steel (or any other kind of good) produced in Canada or Mexico can quite safely be transported to anywhere in the continental USA because of plenty of land routes. Because of this, to suggest that steel imports from Mexico or Canada is a threat to national security would imply that those countries would embargo the US and refuse to export any steel there.

Essentially Trump and the American government is saying that they don't trust the Canadians or Mexicans to remain friendly towards the US. That is why Trudeau is perfectly correct to see Trump's tariffs, especially in how they are justified, as offensive and hostile towards Canada considering how close they have been politically and economically.
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It's particularly bad as far as Canada goes, since our militaries are fairly well integrated, and there's no real "trade deficit" for the US to speak of. What it comes down to is that Dolt 45 is, among other things, a terrible businessman with no understanding of what a mutually beneficial partnership is.

But yes, it's an insult towards Canda, Mexico, *and* the EU, all of whom the head idiot expects to simply accept because...something something.
 
acbytesla said:
That's all I get from Logger's posts. Everything is about sides with ZERO interest in the details.
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It’s that true of Republicans in general thee days? Democrats use the facts to determine what side they are on, Republicans use what side they are on to determine the “facts”
 
lomiller said:
It’s that true of Republicans in general thee days? Democrats use the facts to determine what side they are on, Republicans use what side they are on to determine the “facts”
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Let's say that's indicative of Trump supporters, not all Republicans (though a large majority).
 
logger said:
Disagree, the worlds major super power relying on other countries is, well, ridiculous.
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Why? In the case of Canada this is country with whom the United States has had completely peaceful relations since 1870 (when the States allowed a home grown terrorist movement to train in the United States and then invade Canada), mutually beneficial trade relations since before both countries were formed and multiple mutual defence agreements since 1940.

Arguing that Canada's exports of steel to the US constitute a security threat is, well, ridiculous.

And also insulting. It is implying that one of your oldest allies will turn on you without provocation. That would be more of a Trump thing.
 
The Don said:
Presumably a large majority does represent the party in general :confused:
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A fifth of Republicans don't support Trump, and I'd wager that those who do don't universally support the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative. If it's two-thirds of Republicans who buy into this nonsense, it's a *********** shame, but not what I would call the party in general. A majority, yes.

(Even then, it's hard to know how many swallow the Kool-Aid all the way to alternative facts.)
 
phiwum said:
A fifth of Republicans don't support Trump, and I'd wager that those who do don't universally support the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative. If it's two-thirds of Republicans who buy into this nonsense, it's a *********** shame, but not what I would call the party in general. A majority, yes.

(Even then, it's hard to know how many swallow the Kool-Aid all the way to alternative facts.)
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IMO you don't have to universally support the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative in order for it to be all about sides (rather than facts) from the GOP perspective. Indeed continuing to support the President without buying into the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative indicates that it is all about sides and nothing about what is actually going on.
 
phiwum said:
A fifth of Republicans don't support Trump, and I'd wager that those who do don't universally support the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative. If it's two-thirds of Republicans who buy into this nonsense, it's a *********** shame, but not what I would call the party in general. A majority, yes.

(Even then, it's hard to know how many swallow the Kool-Aid all the way to alternative facts.)
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I guess its a philosophical question... at what point can a "strong majority" of anything be considered "virtually everyone"? If its more than 80% (your current suggested threshold of the republicans who support Trump), then what about 90%? What if every republican liked Trump, except for one lone holdout in one small corner of the U.S.? Would it still be accurate to talk about "all republicans" then, or is one voter enough to claim "oh, not all republicans feel the same!"

And how much does actual opposition factor in? After all, you can claim "not all republicans support trump", but opposition to Trump hasn't caused all the non-Trumpers to leave the party (nor has it prevented Republican congress critters from voting for a tax plan supported by Trump, or blocking any of Trump's nominees). Granted, under normal circumstances you wouldn't expect someone to leave a political party just because they don't support the leader, but Trump is not normal... and having a racist orangutan as president should be justification enough to leave the Republican party.
 
Mumbles said:
It's particularly bad as far as Canada goes, since our militaries are fairly well integrated, and there's no real "trade deficit" for the US to speak of. What it comes down to is that Dolt 45 is, among other things, a terrible businessman with no understanding of what a mutually beneficial partnership is.
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He does, it is clearly called losing in his book.
 
The Don said:
IMO you don't have to universally support the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative in order for it to be all about sides (rather than facts) from the GOP perspective. Indeed continuing to support the President without buying into the "fake news" and "alternative facts" narrative indicates that it is all about sides and nothing about what is actually going on.
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I'll grant that those who support Trump effectively support his lies and fake news agenda. That's a good point.
 
Segnosaur said:
I guess its a philosophical question... at what point can a "strong majority" of anything be considered "virtually everyone"? If its more than 80% (your current suggested threshold of the republicans who support Trump), then what about 90%? What if every republican liked Trump, except for one lone holdout in one small corner of the U.S.? Would it still be accurate to talk about "all republicans" then, or is one voter enough to claim "oh, not all republicans feel the same!"

And how much does actual opposition factor in? After all, you can claim "not all republicans support trump", but opposition to Trump hasn't caused all the non-Trumpers to leave the party (nor has it prevented Republican congress critters from voting for a tax plan supported by Trump, or blocking any of Trump's nominees). Granted, under normal circumstances you wouldn't expect someone to leave a political party just because they don't support the leader, but Trump is not normal... and having a racist orangutan as president should be justification enough to leave the Republican party.
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Point taken, to some extent. I think some never Trumpers want to reclaim their party, but I don't see it happening.

George Will is no longer registered as a Republican, I think, but the politicians are trying to stick it out.
 
logger said:
I’ve given plenty of reasons. That you need more, proves my point again.
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Not that I've seen in years of reading your posts.

Q.Do you agree Trump is a habitual liar?

Q. Do you agree Trump is a cheat?

Q. Do you agree that Trump is untrustworthy?

Q.Do you agree that Trump doesn't have Christian values?

Q.Do you agree that Trump is a sleaze?
 
acbytesla said:
Not that I've seen in years of reading your posts.

Q.Do you agree Trump is a habitual liar?

Q. Do you agree Trump is a cheat?

Q. Do you agree that Trump is untrustworthy?

Q.Do you agree that Trump doesn't have Christian values?

Q.Do you agree that Trump is a sleaze?
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And please answer the questions without referring to either Bill or Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama.
 
phiwum said:
Point taken, to some extent. I think some never Trumpers want to reclaim their party, but I don't see it happening.

George Will is no longer registered as a Republican, I think, but the politicians are trying to stick it out.
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Except for the dozens who are quitting.
 
lomiller said:
It’s that true of Republicans in general thee days? Democrats use the facts to determine what side they are on, Republicans use what side they are on to determine the “facts”
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I assume you say that with a straight face and fully believe it. In my opinion both "sides" are pretty similar.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Point taken, to some extent. I think some never Trumpers want to reclaim their party, but I don't see it happening.

George Will is no longer registered as a Republican, I think, but the politicians are trying to stick it out.
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Except for the dozens who are quitting.
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Which brings up the question...

Are the republicans who are quitting doing so because they do not like Trump and/or where the republican party has gone, or are they quitting as a matter of self preservation (i.e. quitting just because they realize they are at risk of losing in the midterms.)

And if its the former, where exactly has their opposition been? A lot has been made about how republicans like Flake are quitting, but remember, he still voted for the tax cut bill, and he has still voted to confirm all the initial members of Trump's cabinet as well as Gorsuch. Hard to claim "I'm quitting on principle" if you've just spend the better part of 2 years agreeing to almost everything the racist orangutan wants.
 
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