Another WA Gun Initiative.

[ponderingturtle]

You're saying that there is a federal law shielding the gun industry from recalls?

Yes

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-28/how-defective-guns-became-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled

They are specifically exempted from laws that permit the government to issue a product recall.

But hey even if the gun goes off in a holster with the safety on it is still a negligent discharge so the guys son in the story was really the negligent one not the manufacturer.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm restricting my remarks to WA; my place of residence at this time. The few searches I've made on the net show that sales are increasing. http://q13fox.com/2016/06/16/washington-state-on-track-to-set-record-for-number-of-gun-purchases/

Um got anything from after Trumps Election? Citing june 2016 isn't current enough for this discussion.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm not sure what ponderingturtle meant by "See all the gun manufactures going bankrupt".

Many gun manufacterers expanded greatly to deal with the obama response gun surge, when Trump was elected sales slumped and this is causing many to go bankrupt. The all in that sentence is that many have gone bankrupt not a claim that all gun manufacturers have.

You seem remarkably ignorant of recent trends and laws effecting gun safety for someone so into guns.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm not sure what ponderingturtle meant by "See all the gun manufactures going bankrupt".


I got my data with a google search on gun makers going bankrupt. Doesn't seem to be lots of them actually closing their manufacturing plants.

It is just the start of the bankruptcy process for them, selling off such assets would be a part that happens further along.

 

[Ranb]

Yes....

Or so your link says. What does the law actually say?

Um got anything from after Trumps Election? Citing june 2016 isn't current enough for this discussion.

http://thedataface.com/2018/03/economy/us-gun-sales
This link shows that sales have greatly increased in WA over the last several years but dipped from 2016 to 2017.

It is just the start of the bankruptcy process for them, selling off such assets would be a part that happens further along.

Bankruptcy doesn't actually mean a business stops selling products. It can mean a restructuring. If they go out of business then creditors might not be able to get their money back.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Or so your link says. What does the law actually say?

How about what the Consumer Product Saftey comission says?

" (iii) Recalls

Additionally, CPSC works well with industry to recall products that, due to a design or manufacturing defect, are unreasonably dangerous. CPSC works closely with companies to put together a Corrective Action Plan to address the hazard, and then monitors the recall to make sure it is effective. Every year the CPSC works with scores of firms to conduct hundreds of recalls, covering consumer products as varied as infant toys, power tools, and even bulletproof vests.

b. CPSC Having Jurisdiction Would Make Guns Safer

Under our present statutory restrictions, we cannot work with industry to pass voluntary standards, pass mandatory standards, work with manufacturers or retailers to recall defective guns or ammunition, and we cannot study the patterns of unintentional deaths and injuries associated with guns. Any of these activities could, without infringing any Second Amendment right, help make guns less likely to cause accidental deaths and injuries."

https://leadership.cpsc.gov/robinson/2016/07/12/the-robinson-report-24-let-us-make-guns-safer/

Guns are inherently safe unlike say a microwave.

 

[ponderingturtle]

http://thedataface.com/2018/03/economy/us-gun-sales
This link shows that sales have greatly increased in WA over the last several years but dipped from 2016 to 2017.

Your own link shows an across the board drop in 2017 and calls it the Trump Slump with a

"From a myopic view, however, gun sale statistics for 2017 present an interesting anomaly. Estimated gun sales actually declined by over 11% nationwide in 2017. It’s the third largest year-over-year decline in sales since the NICS was implemented."

Bankruptcy doesn't actually mean a business stops selling products. It can mean a restructuring. If they go out of business then creditors might not be able to get their money back.

It says something to the health of the industry.

 

[Ranb]

This is what I was looking for but others were unwilling to provide.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/2052

(5) Consumer productThe term “consumer product” means any article, or component part thereof, produced or distributed .... but such term does not include—
(A) any article which is not customarily produced or distributed for sale to, or use or consumption by, or enjoyment of, a consumer,
(B) tobacco and tobacco products,
(C) motor vehicles....
(D) pesticides ....
(E) any article which, if sold by the manufacturer, producer, or importer, would be subject to the tax imposed by section 4181 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 [26 U.S.C. 4181] (determined without regard to any exemptions from such tax provided by section 4182 or 4221, or any other provision of such Code), or any component of any such article,
(F) aircraft, aircraft engines, propellers, or appliances (as defined in section 40102(a) of title 49),
(G) boats which could be subjected to safety regulation under chapter 43 of title 46;....
(H) drugs, devices, or cosmetics (as such terms are defined in sections 201(g), (h), and (i) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act ....
(I) food. ....

All of the products that the CPSA does not regulate are covered by other laws. Given that the BATFE has so much authority over guns, recalls should be one of them.

Gun recalls would be on topic if they were part of the initiative in the original post; but they're not.

 

[ponderingturtle]

All of the products that the CPSA does not regulate are covered by other laws. Given that the BATFE has so much authority over guns, recalls should be one of them.

No one wants guns to be effectively regulated though the laws hamstringing the BATFE are quite clear in that regard.

And we see here the way it always seems people are for some kind of universal background check and yet never for any law that does it. It is that people like it in theory but in practice it would be too much of a hassle and are willing to deal with the consequences.

 

[Ranb]

And we see here the way it always seems people are for some kind of universal background check and yet never for any law that does it. It is that people like it in theory but in practice it would be too much of a hassle and are willing to deal with the consequences.

Can you show me a bill that requires bkgd checks for all gun sales to unlicensed persons but does not over regulate the issue to the point where a bkgd check is required to just hold a gun in your hand or reside with a gun owner you are not related to?

WA's I-594 went way overboard in that manner. It was not just bkgd checks for gun sales. For a while it was a potential felony just to hold and/or shoot a friend's gun at a rifle range unless the friend got a bkgd check prior to shooting the gun and the owner got a bkgd check prior to taking the gun back.

People say they want universal bkgd checks and the bills they get are like the garbage that was I-594.

 

[mgidm86]

Just move to VA, then you don't even need a license to carry concealed. A true gun owners paradise.

I wonder what happens when everyone is carrying a gun? Kinda meaningless at that point.

"Hey how about we all drop our guns and get rid of the several pounds of dead weight hangin' on our belts? Ain't much sense of us all carrying one, may as well nobody have one! Can I get a 'yeehaw'?"

Someone above compared regulating alcohol and tobackie with guns, but y'all forget about that second amendment thing. Y'ain't got no right to get poop-faced.

 

[Ranb]

More about the proposed definition of an assault rifle.

"Semiautomatic assault rifle” means any rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge."

This would make any non-antique semi-auto rifle an assault weapon including the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin Model 60. It would also exclude rifles like the AR-10 and AR-15 made in 1969 and earlier.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Can you show me a bill that requires bkgd checks for all gun sales to unlicensed persons but does not over regulate the issue to the point where a bkgd check is required to just hold a gun in your hand or reside with a gun owner you are not related to?

Then write one. This is why all gun owners who supposedly support universal background checks are all talk and when push comes to shove don't care. They would never and agree upon any kind of regulatory methodology to make it happen.

 

[Joe Random]

More about the proposed definition of an assault rifle.

"Semiautomatic assault rifle” means any rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge."

This would make any non-antique semi-auto rifle an assault weapon including the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin Model 60. It would also exclude rifles like the AR-10 and AR-15 made in 1969 and earlier.

Curious why they took the step of defining all semi-autos as 'assault rifles', rather than just applying the proposed legislation to semis directly. Would defining all semis as assault rifles get other, currently existing legislation to apply to them as well?

 

[Ranb]

Then write one. This is why all gun owners who supposedly support universal background checks are all talk and when push comes to shove don't care. They would never and agree upon any kind of regulatory methodology to make it happen.

Why do you think I'm not taking any action at all? I talk about gun control all the time on this forum and I usually include those times when I'm able to talk to the politicians who write the law.

I sent my recommendations to the WAGR. Turns out they seem to be rather xenophobic. They didn't really want my input and when they promised me answers to questions I had about why they wrote I-594 the way they did, they never got around to giving any.

I've also given input to Jinkins, Kline and am trying to talk to Kilmer. While the state level politicians are willing to at least listen, talking to Kilmer (my rep in DC) is like talking to a brick wall that has an aide standing in front of it that tells lies.

 

[Ranb]

Curious why they took the step of defining all semi-autos as 'assault rifles', rather than just applying the proposed legislation to semis directly. Would defining all semis as assault rifles get other, currently existing legislation to apply to them as well?

I think it has to do with perception. If they want to more strictly regulate semi-auto rifles, then all of a sudden they're going after grandfather's guns. If they label them as assault rifles, then they're going after those military grade murder machines that no civilian really wants to own unless they're a gun nut.

I thought this would be obvious seeing as how the label "assault weapon" is so carelessly thrown around these days.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

Boy are the leftists going to be surprised when they find out we are not going to be giving up our guns. The Constitution is very clear, and is on our side.

 

[Ranb]

There is nothing in this propose initiative that is related to banning guns other than for those adults that have not reached the age of 21.

 

[MikeG]

.......I guess some adults just aren't supposed to enjoy their civil rights...............

You're talking about all the adults shot dead who wouldn't have been shot dead in a more normal society, right?

 

[BrooklynBaby]

There is nothing in this propose initiative that is related to banning guns other than for those adults that have not reached the age of 21.

So, will the draft age be raised to 21 to support the silly notion that the primary age group that has fought most of our wars can't be trusted with guns? Oh, and banning firearms that can be effectively used in a militia is most certainly Unconstitutional.