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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

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No, I’m not shifting the burden of proof.

Asking others to answer the questions you ;) should be capable of answering - like how fast was McClain going - is the very definition of shifting the burden of proof.



If you are claiming that the HSCA acoustic evidence have been refuted, you are the one who has to provide the evidence for this.

You ;) are the one supporting the HSCA acoustic conclusions. You ;) are the one that should be able to answer simple questions like "how fast was McClain going?"



Or, are you saying that I have to provide the evidence supporting your proclamations?

I am saying you ;) "have to provide the evidence supporting your proclamations," yes.


How weired is that?

For you ;) to provide evidence? Extremely "weired".

Hank
 
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So, magic. Do you have any evidence of how easy this was to do, not just your bare assertion?

I see we're getting a lot of new people asking Manifesto to post the evidence for his assertions.

I take this as indicating that even the people who are normally lurkers are getting fed up with Manifesto's rigamarole.

Hank
 
You mean like when Gerald Ford moved the wound in the back to the neck?

This was covered back in the thread with, I believe, Robert Prey. You'd know that assertion you make was false if you had already done what you were advised to do: read the thread.

But then, you probably already know that, and aren't trying to prove a conspiracy. You're just trying to keep the conversation going. Pretty much like every other CT.

Hank
 
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I see we're getting a lot of new people asking Manifesto to post the evidence for his assertions.

I take this as indicating that even the people who are normally lurkers are getting fed up with Manifesto's rigamarole.

Hank

Yes his rigamarole is becoming stale.
 
No, I’m not shifting the burden of proof. If you are claiming that the HSCA acoustic evidence have been refuted, you are the one who has to provide the evidence for this.

Lets get this straight!

When the HSCA acoustic report was first outlined, it was taken seriously and considered to be correct. It appeared to indicate that there was at least one additional (fourth) shot, fired at the presidential motorcade, from the Grassy Knoll. The burden of proof belonged to anyone wishing to refute the HSCA.

That challenge was taken up first by the the FBI and then the DOJ who asked the National Academy of Sciences put together a team of leading experts in the field of ballistics, sound engineering, signal processing and acoustical analysis. The team was called the Committee on Ballistic Acoustics(CBA). The CBA absolutely refuted the HSCA report, pointing out a number of faulty assumptions, technical errors and errors in timing, not the least of which is that the piece of audio the HSCA claimed to have included the sounds of the gunshots was shown conclusively to have been recorded at least 60 seconds AFTER the fatal shots were fired. Their report is accepted as correct even by those who did the work on the HSCA report

I hereby present my evidence - the report of the CBA
http://www.jfk-online.com/nas00.html
Some years laster, Donald B. Thomas (an entomologist) tried his hand at refuting the CBA. He failed, with a report that was full of factual errors and faulty assumptions (hardly surprising for a man who studies bugs and beetles for a living - he was outside of his field and out of his depth.
For balance, here is his report
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/d_b_thomas_report.htm

Next, award winning video analyst and computer animator, Dale Myers did his own comprehensive report and conclusively proved the HCSA's contention that it was Officer McLain who had the stuck microphone was completely wrong and that he could not have been in all the places the HSCA report said he needed to be at the necessary times.

I hereby present my supporting evidence - the report of Dale K Myers
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm

And for good measure, here is Myers' take-down of Thomas' rubbish
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics_11.htm

Finally, Donald Thomas, tried to refute Dale Myers' analysis and utterly failed to do so. His refutations contain many of the same false assumptions and a large number obvious of factual errors his original flawed work contained

The CBA's findings and the report by Dale Myers completely overturned the HSCA report, they have both met their burden to prove the HSCA wrong. The CBA and Myers' work are now overwhelmingly the accepted view. Anyone who wants to refute them owns the burden of proof... this includes you.

You will, of course, not believe the CBA or Myers, but your beliefs are irrelevant, and are not evidence.

It is not enough for you to merely proclaim that their work is in error (whether you have read it or not, and I strongly suspect the latter)... you have to prove it is in error.

It is not enough for you to merely keep harking back to the HSCA report... is has been overturned and totally debunked.

It is not enough for you to dismiss any evidence that you don't like with a wave of your hand. You have to prove it should be dismissed.

You will, of course, complain about the expertise of these panels because the members qualifications don't meet your personal expectations (or something), but your expectations are not evidence. In fact I find it remarkable that you reject the findings of a panel comprised of people with expertise in ballistics, signal processing an acoustics who were tasked with examining evidence potentially containing gunshots, radio signals and modulated sounds, yet you unquestioningly accept, on the same topics, the unqualified word of a bug collector!
 
No, he didn’t know he was about to be used as a patsy, no.

But within three minutes of the assassination, he did realize that, because he did leave the building, he did take a bus and a cab in an effort to get back to the rooming house, change his clothes, and grab his revolver, and then, within 15 minutes of leaving the rooming house, shoot an officer dead and then attempt to shoot another about 35 minutes after that?

Is that your theory?

Now, let's remind you of your argument about the rifle: It wasn't his. He didn't order it or possess it, and the paper trail and the backyard photos are fakes. Also, he didn't bring his rifle to the building that morning. So when the rifle shots rang out, he couldn't be thinking, "Oh no, I just gave my rifle to that guy to borrow for the weekend!" (or anything of that nature).

So, just tell us: What and how did he realize "he was about to be used as a patsy" within three minutes of the assassination that caused him to leave the building in such a hurry, he did take a bus and a cab to get back to his rooming house and he did grab his revolver and shoot a cop, didn't he?

What was his first clue "he was about to be used as a patsy", do you think?

Or is that another one for the "more on this later" pile?

Your arguments are at cross purposes. But you're used to that, aren't you?

Hank
 
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I used my eyes.

The white SS car is about to begin its turn from Houston to Elm. The car immediately in front of it is halfway in the intersection.

Both vehicles are in relatively the same position in both films (+/- a few frames). Roll one of the films forward 2 seconds and they are no longer even close to synchronized.

Ergo there is not 2 seconds of "wiggle room" for McLain to reach the first microphone spot.
How do you know that the white SS car is about to begin its turn and not already began to turn before it becomes visible in the Z-film?
 
How do you know that the white SS car is about to begin its turn and not already began to turn before it becomes visible in the Z-film?

Seeing how and when others take the turn.
Knowing how cars turn.
Assuming it is being driven sensibly to retain formation within the precession.
 
But within three minutes of the assassination, he did realize that, because he did leave the building,
As did a number of other employees, calling it the day.

he did take a bus and a cab in an effort to get back to the rooming house,
In an effort? Yes, there were a traffic jam beacause of the assassination so he took a cab after offering it to a lady who seemed to be in a hurry.

change his clothes,
Not so nice weareing your dirty working clothes when not working, no.

and grab his revolver,
Says who?

and then, within 15 minutes of leaving the rooming house, shoot an officer dead
Says who?

and then attempt to shoot another about 35 minutes after that?
There are at least three different stories of how this incident developed, which one do you like the most?

Why did Oswald repetingly yell: ”I’m not resisting arrest! I’m not resisting arrest!”, while trying to kill the arresting officer?

Is that your theory?
No? It seems to be your theory? Problems with your short time memory? Seven seconds and it’s all gone?

Now?

let's remind you of your argument about the rifle: It wasn't his.
Not according to the evidence/lack of evidence, no, it wasn’t his rifle.

He didn't order it or possess it, and the paper trail and the backyard photos are fakes.
The rifle paper trail is fake. The backyard photo could be fake or it could have been taken in the belief it served the purpose in creating his legend as a commie rebel in order to infiltrate commie rebels.

Also, he didn't bring his rifle to the building that morning.
Correct:

1. He didn’t own a rifle to bring.

2. The Fraizer siblings couldn’t identify the taped paper bag allegedly used to carry the rifle.

3. The Frazier siblings described Oswald carrying the bag in ways that excluded it from containing a broken down Carcano = too short.

4. The Frazier siblings described a much shorter bag with no tape on it looking like a common grocery bag, way shorter than the alleged bag who was allegedly used to bring the murder weapon to the TSBD.

5. The alleged rifle bag had no traces of weapon oil in it, in spite of the Carcano being well oiled when allegedly found on the sixth floor.

6. No one knows who actually found the bag on the floor in the ’snipers nest’.

7. No photograph of the bag on said floor before allegedly picking it up.

8. Shall I continue?

So when the rifle shots rang out, he couldn't be thinking, "Oh no, I just gave my rifle to that guy to borrow for the weekend!" (or anything of that nature).
Well, since he didn’t own a rifle, why should he think that?

So, just tell us: What and how did he realize "he was about to be used as a patsy" within three minutes of the assassination that caused him to leave the building in such a hurry, he did take a bus and a cab to get back to his rooming house and he did grab his revolver and shoot a cop, didn't he?
See above.

He probably realized that he was set up as a patsy when the reporters started to yell questions to him about his whereabouts during the assassination of JFK. As he himself explain in the short press conferens he gave.

The reason for being arrested was that he was a suspect in the killing of police officer J.D. Tippit.

What was his first clue "he was about to be used as a patsy", do you think?
See above.

Or is that another one for the "more on this later" pile?
I’m doing my best responding to the barrage of insults and claims coming from you and your fellow members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut.

My very best.

Your arguments are at cross purposes.
Are they? Explain.

But you're used to that, aren't you?
No. Should I be? Explain.

Hello Hank.
 
Was Hoover given the boot?
Or did he reach retirement age?
Hoover died being the head of FBI. It was the president who could allow Hoover to continue as chief, which his old PAL and neighbor, LBJ, did.

JFK had definitely refused to do so IF elected to a second term as president.

Hoover knew this.
 
Hoover died being the head of FBI. It was the president who could allow Hoover to continue as chief, which his old PAL and neighbor, LBJ, did.

Hoover and Johnson were not friends.

JFK had definitely refused to do so IF elected to a second term as president.

Hoover knew this

No, JFK was not going to remove Hoover from the FBI for the same reason every other President did not - Hoover had the dirt on him, and JFK's dirt was considerable.
 
Why did Oswald repetingly yell: ”I’m not resisting arrest! I’m not resisting arrest!”, while trying to kill the arresting officer?

If you had any idea how many dead cops heard that phrase, or something like it before they were murdered you'd know how stupid this question is.



Not according to the evidence/lack of evidence, no, it wasn’t his rifle.

Your unwillingness to accept reality is your problem.

The rifle paper trail is fake. The backyard photo could be fake or it could have been taken in the belief it served the purpose in creating his legend as a commie rebel in order to infiltrate commie rebels.

1. He didn’t own a rifle to bring.

2. The Fraizer siblings couldn’t identify the taped paper bag allegedly used to carry the rifle.

3. The Frazier siblings described Oswald carrying the bag in ways that excluded it from containing a broken down Carcano = too short.

4. The Frazier siblings described a much shorter bag with no tape on it looking like a common grocery bag, way shorter than the alleged bag who was allegedly used to bring the murder weapon to the TSBD.

5. The alleged rifle bag had no traces of weapon oil in it, in spite of the Carcano being well oiled when allegedly found on the sixth floor.

6. No one knows who actually found the bag on the floor in the ’snipers nest’.

7. No photograph of the bag on said floor before allegedly picking it up.

8. Shall I continue?

Well, since he didn’t own a rifle, why should he think that?

This is why you're such a disappointment. Everything you just wrote is pedestrain, low-grade, rookie CTist junk that has debunked decades ago (even by other CTists). You're not challenging anybody here, and you haven't brought anything new to the table.

Oswald shot JFK and Tippit, this is not in question any more. If you want a conspiracy you have to look into who Oswald might have known, and if they were connected to a larger conspiracy.

He probably realized that he was set up as a patsy when the reporters started to yell questions to him about his whereabouts during the assassination of JFK. As he himself explain in the short press conferens he gave.

He was a pathological liar.


I’m doing my best responding to the barrage of insults and claims coming from you and your fellow members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut.

My very best.

Not good enough.
 
Hoover and Johnson were not friends.
Yes, they were. Neighbors for almost 19 years. Used to walk Hoovers dogs together. Regular Sunday brunches in the home of LBJ.

It was Hoover who gave LBJ the dirt on JFK so he could blackmail him to accept him as his vice president in the comming election.

No, JFK was not going to remove Hoover from the FBI for the same reason every other President did not - Hoover had the dirt on him, and JFK's dirt was considerable.
The dirt was maybe harmful before the election for his second term, but not so after being president. It was no crime to be a womanizer, and in those days almost expected (and secretely admired) of a successful man.

So yes, Hoover saw his end as corrupt SOG closing in on him with the Kennedys in charge.
 
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Yes, they were. Neighbors for almost 19 years. Used to walk Hoovers dogs together. Regular Sunday brunches in the home of LBJ.

Even assuming this showed actual friendship rather than neighbourly civility:
It was Hoover who gave LBJ the dirt on JFK so he could blackmail him to accept him as his vice president in the comming election.
This needs some evidence to support it.
(And I remind you that YOU are the one who claimed the higher morality for presuming innocence until proof of guilt).
So yes, Hoover saw his end as corrupt SOG closing in on him with the Kennedys in charge.

And this needs evidence in the form of a direct quote stating as much.
 
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