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Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

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Vixen said:
All he said was there were partygoers 'above' him (Perugia has a steep series of roads) who vanished with the bus at about eleven, to make clear that Knox and Raff were not part of the revellers, but instead, remained seated on the low wall of the basketball court in intense conversation with Raff periodically nipping down the steps. The basketball court has a viewpoint overlooking via Pergola.

In court all they want is objective information. Thus, his belief the partygoers were going to the Red Zone discos and that they were awaiting a transfer bus is merely his subjective assumption and not a verifiable fact.

Oh, and you don't get 'high' on heroin. Heroin is a soporific and is classed as a depressant.
Click to expand...

Here is Curatolo's testimony once again:

Judge: So, you saw Amanda and Raffaele?
Curatolo: Yeah, it was Halloween when I saw them. I know this because I saw the kids getting on the disco buses all dressed up in costumes. That’s how I also know what time it was. Judge: When is Halloween?
Curatolo: I don’t know. Maybe end of October or beginning of November, I think.
Judge: You aren’t sure? What about your case now? You are in prison, correct? How long will you be there?
Curatolo: I don’t know. I don’t understand the case against me really. I understand nothing.
Click to expand...

Once again: NOT A SINGLE WITNESS EVER SUPPORTED CURATOLO'S CLAIM. Why is that, Vixen?
Please just stop embarrassing yourself.
 
Stacyhs said:
Here is Curatolo's testimony once again:



Once again: NOT A SINGLE WITNESS EVER SUPPORTED CURATOLO'S CLAIM. Why is that, Vixen?
Please just stop embarrassing yourself.
Click to expand...

Stop fibbing. The kiosk owner testified Curatolo was there when he said he was, and his friends also witnessed the forensic police swarming around after one next day.
 
Vixen said:
Marasca & Bruno is simply a copy and paste of Bongiorno, hence its inherent illogicality, because on the one hand there are the established facts found, and it some how had to insert her ranting nonsense into the framework, hence all the utter bilge about 'flawed investigation' and 'press interference'.

The only way it could annul the verdict of guilty was to claim 'insufficient evidence', which was totally dishonest.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute. I thought you were quoting the M/B report to prop up your own confirmation bias?

Which is it? (I've got whiplash reading your posts, which is probably your intent all along!)
 
Vixen said:
All he said was there were partygoers 'above' him (Perugia has a steep series of roads) who vanished with the bus at about eleven, to make clear that Knox and Raff were not part of the revellers, but instead, remained seated on the low wall of the basketball court in intense conversation with Raff periodically nipping down the steps. The basketball court has a viewpoint overlooking via Pergola.

In court all they want is objective information. Thus, his belief the partygoers were going to the Red Zone discos and that they were awaiting a transfer bus is merely his subjective assumption and not a verifiable fact.
Click to expand...


Oh brother. This is so many flavours of wrong. All that matters is that Curatolo's testimony leads to one, and only one, inference: that what Curatolo was describing was Halloween-evening students in costumes and masks gathering in hoards to board the disco buses. There is NO other inference which can be drawn from his testimony. And, as such, at the very least Curatolo is conflating two different days in his "recollection".



Oh, and you don't get 'high' on heroin. Heroin is a soporific and is classed as a depressant.
Click to expand...


Wow. You actually believe that "high" refers only to "upper"-type drugs such as ecstasy or amphetamines?? Well, you're bang wrong. In fact, the term "high" is in universal usage in respect of the effects of taking heroin, or for that matter any mind-altering drug. Your ignorance on this matter is interesting (almost as interesting as your incorrect interjection to tell someone they're wrong to say that one can get high on heroin.....).


https://heroin.net/heroin-effects/heroin-high/

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-feel-like/

http://www.newsweek.com/ryan-edwards-high-heroin-order-protection-maci-bookout-teen-mom-869968

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
 
Vixen said:
Quite often they do. The barristers I know pride themselves on being able to do a case 'on the hoof'. A quick read through of the salient points and they've got it.
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"The barristers I know" hehehehehehehehehehehehe :D :rolleyes:

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the workings of the JUDGES. Of the SUPREME COURT. In ITALY.

Other than that, etc................. :rolleyes:
 
Vixen said:
Stop fibbing. The kiosk owner testified Curatolo was there when he said he was, and his friends also witnessed the forensic police swarming around after one next day.
Click to expand...

Yes and Curatolo admitted that he was approached by the swam of police and asked if he had seen anything, and he said he saw and knew nothing.

*in Douglas Adam voice* and that about wrapped it up for toto.
 
Vixen said:
Stop fibbing. The kiosk owner testified Curatolo was there when he said he was, and his friends also witnessed the forensic police swarming around after one next day.
Click to expand...

Fibbing? The kiosk owner did NOT say she saw any masked students getting on disco busses on Nov. 1. Nor did anyone else.
The kiosk owner said that Curatolo was on his bench at 6:40 AM when she opened her shop when Curatolo claimed he had slept in the park and didn't get up until 8:30 or 9:00. Not that Curatolo was confused or anything.
 
bagels said:
Yes and Curatolo admitted that he was approached by the swam of police and asked if he had seen anything, and he said he saw and knew nothing.

*in Douglas Adam voice* and that about wrapped it up for toto.
Click to expand...


Ah no, but apparently (in guilter-bizarro-world) this actually makes Curatolo's subsequent claims even more reliable; because only someone who genuinely HAD seen Knox and Sollecito in the square on the evening/night of the murder would tell the police that he'd seen nothing when asked about it within days - by contrast, someone who hadn't seen anything at all would apparently be telling the police he DID see Knox and Sollecito that evening night when asked within days......

See how it all makes perfect sense now?! :D :rolleyes:
 
I honestly have never seen anyone so deeply mired in confirmation bias blindness as Vixen. "Vixen" could be an official synonym for "confirmation bias" and "willful blindness".
 
LondonJohn said:
Oh brother. This is so many flavours of wrong. All that matters is that Curatolo's testimony leads to one, and only one, inference: that what Curatolo was describing was Halloween-evening students in costumes and masks gathering in hoards to board the disco buses. There is NO other inference which can be drawn from his testimony. And, as such, at the very least Curatolo is conflating two different days in his "recollection".






Wow. You actually believe that "high" refers only to "upper"-type drugs such as ecstasy or amphetamines?? Well, you're bang wrong. In fact, the term "high" is in universal usage in respect of the effects of taking heroin, or for that matter any mind-altering drug. Your ignorance on this matter is interesting (almost as interesting as your incorrect interjection to tell someone they're wrong to say that one can get high on heroin.....).


https://heroin.net/heroin-effects/heroin-high/

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-feel-like/

http://www.newsweek.com/ryan-edwards-high-heroin-order-protection-maci-bookout-teen-mom-869968

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
Click to expand...

From your own link:

The rush that results from an initial hit of heroin generally only lasts a few minutes – but the high is more persistent.2 Once this sense of euphoria begins to dissipate, the individual will begin to feel very drowsy. They may even slip in and out of consciousness (also referred to as "nodding off"), which is generally most evident shortly after usage.

This state of drowsiness following the heroin high can also be characterized by mental sluggishness, slow or slurred speech and confusion, and may last for several hours.4 Individuals describe feeling warm, cozy and relaxed with a profound sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.
Click to expand...

It is a soporific and a depressant, as is alcohol, even if it does make you feel merry initially.
 
I honestly have never seen anyone so deeply mired in confirmation bias blindness as Vixen. "Vixen" could be an official synonym for "confirmation bias" and "willful blindness".
 
Vixen said:
From your own link:



It is a soporific and a depressant, as is alcohol, even if it does make you feel merry initially.
Click to expand...



NO.

You "corrected" Stacy by telling her that one cannot get "high" on heroin.

You. Were. Wrong.

And, once again, "high" is not synonymous with "merry". Rather, it's to do with a form of euphoric mind alteration.

All of this is yet another example of you a) being ignorant on a topic, then b) not even understanding how/why you are ignorant, and c) seeking to lecture or correct others from this position of wanton ignorance.

Why do you have a seemingly-pathological inability to concede you are/were wrong on any point? It's pathetic.

And, by the way, didn't you even NOTICE the parts I've highlighted in the section you quoted back at me from one of those links?

The rush that results from an initial hit of heroin generally only lasts a few minutes – but the high is more persistent.2 Once this sense of euphoria begins to dissipate, the individual will begin to feel very drowsy. They may even slip in and out of consciousness (also referred to as "nodding off"), which is generally most evident shortly after usage.

This state of drowsiness following the heroin high can also be characterized by mental sluggishness, slow or slurred speech and confusion, and may last for several hours.4 Individuals describe feeling warm, cozy and relaxed with a profound sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.
 
Vixen said:
From your own link:

The rush that results from an initial hit of heroin generally only lasts a few minutes – but the high is more persistent.2 Once this sense of euphoria begins to dissipate, the individual will begin to feel very drowsy. They may even slip in and out of consciousness (also referred to as "nodding off"), which is generally most evident shortly after usage.

This state of drowsiness following the heroin high can also be characterized by mental sluggishness, slow or slurred speech and confusion, and may last for several hours.4 Individuals describe feeling warm, cozy and relaxed with a profound sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.
Click to expand...

It is a soporific and a depressant, as is alcohol, even if it does make you feel merry initially.
Click to expand...

Try reading what LJ wrote again very slowly. And thank you for supporting what we've long said: Curatolo was confused due to his drug addiction.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Try reading what LJ wrote again very slowly. And thank you for supporting what we've long said: Curatolo was confused due to his drugs addiction.
Click to expand...


Yes. I wonder what stage Curatolo was going through between around 9pm and 12am on Thursday 1st November 2007...?

To me, the truly fascinating - and worrying - part is quite how any Italian lower court (most especially the Nencini court, in the light of Curatolo's self-destruct testimony before Hellmann) could assess Curatolo's claims as credible and reliable. IMO that's utterly shocking. I believe the only plausible explanation is a craven belief that the prosecution case must have watertight integrity and veracity - in this instance, this would manifest itself in the court somehow concluding "Well, the prosecution must have checked this fellow Curatolo out and deemed him sufficiently credible/reliable to include him in their case, so we'll defer to the prosecution's judgement here".

Fortunately for justice and fairness, the Marasca SC panel could see all of this for what it really was.
 
Curatolo was a long term heroin addict.

Typical memory problems caused by heroin use include:

•Difficulty making new memories
•Loss of short-term memory efficiency
•Disappearance of long-term memories
•Struggle to remember basic facts (address, phone number, etc)
•Inability to recognize faces
•Decreased memory scores
•Blackouts and memory gaps
Click to expand...

http://www.rehabcenter.net/heroins-effect-on-memory/

The PGP need to believe that a long term heroin addict couldn't have been confused about what night he saw students in costumes in the piazza.
But, at the same time, they refuse to concede that two people who were admittedly smoking weed, known to affect memory, might get confused about the details of an evening. Nope. Curatolo is telling the truth, but the other two are lying.
 
LondonJohn said:
NO.

You "corrected" Stacy by telling her that one cannot get "high" on heroin.

You. Were. Wrong.

And, once again, "high" is not synonymous with "merry". Rather, it's to do with a form of euphoric mind alteration.

All of this is yet another example of you a) being ignorant on a topic, then b) not even understanding how/why you are ignorant, and c) seeking to lecture or correct others from this position of wanton ignorance.

Why do you have a seemingly-pathological inability to concede you are/were wrong on any point? It's pathetic.

And, by the way, didn't you even NOTICE the parts I've highlighted in the section you quoted back at me from one of those links?

The rush that results from an initial hit of heroin generally only lasts a few minutes – but the high is more persistent.2 Once this sense of euphoria begins to dissipate, the individual will begin to feel very drowsy. They may even slip in and out of consciousness (also referred to as "nodding off"), which is generally most evident shortly after usage.

This state of drowsiness following the heroin high can also be characterized by mental sluggishness, slow or slurred speech and confusion, and may last for several hours.4 Individuals describe feeling warm, cozy and relaxed with a profound sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.
Click to expand...

This has long been my question. The ability to acknowledge error is an indication of mental and emotional health and maturity. The inability to admit error, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, indicates a psychological/emotional problem. A classic example of someone who cannot ever admit error is Trump.
 
Vixen said:
Quite often they do. The barristers I know pride themselves on being able to do a case 'on the hoof'. A quick read through of the salient points and they've got it.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes..."pride". If I'm ever arrested for anything in the UK, please give me a list of these barristers. So I can avoid hiring them.
 
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