Axxman300
Philosopher
And I haven't even gotten to the problems with a dictabelt that was anywhere from 13 to 20 years old at the time of the HSCA.
Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
I'm not talking about the Dorman film, I'm talking about the Hughes film
The motorcycle cop in the foreground is HB McLain... in that position, at approx H-660, there is no possible way he could have proceeded far enough forward for his allegedly open microphone to have recorded the THREE shots that were fired, even if he had not stopped (which he did).
Applies to you a lot more than it applies to me.
I see it; everyone else here sees it; you don't. This will tell you something important if you are smart enough to notice.
Yep it is for these purposes.
What you are demanding is tantamount to demanding that pi be calculated to 20 decimal places when all you trying to do is hand draw a circle, on paper.... with a crayon
No, they are facts, learned from years of experience dealing with Conspiracy Theorists just like you (and the personal experiences of my own being a JFK conspiracy theorist, down the rabbit hole, just like you
Axxman300
Philosopher
Do you have proof that they never read it? Do you know that the FBI is not a single entity? There are thousands of agents, all college educated, and they have good technicians.
Prove that no FBI agent read the HSCA's reports before making their statement.
Axxman300
Philosopher
Yup.
That's the #12 car, a grey Chevy Impala two-door convertible carrying local news cameras. McLain is in postion BEHIND it riding in tandem with DPD officer Marion Baker.
It is eight back from the Presidential limo.
What? You wrote:
She began climbing onto the trunk at about Z-356, and remained on the trunk until at least Z-466 before the limo disappeared under the triple underpass.
466 - 356 = 110 frames at 18 fps = 6.1 seconds. That is an eternity in this context; McLain could have stopped on Houston half-way between Main and Elm, looked to his left and seen Jackie start to climb onto the trunk (the 6.1 seconds begins) and then kicked off and accelerated to the corner of Elm to see Jackie still on the trunk.
Of course, manifesto handwaves all this away;
That is, you are claiming that McLain could have BOTH been standing still halfway on Houston seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the limo trunk AND have the time to reach the intersection while she was still on the trunk.466 - 356 = 110 frames at 18 fps = 6.1 seconds. That is an eternity in this context; McLain could have stopped on Houston half-way between Main and Elm, looked to his left and seen Jackie start to climb onto the trunk (the 6.1 seconds begins) and then kicked off and accelerated to the corner of Elm to see Jackie still on the trunk.
Of course, manifesto handwaves all this away;
This is a faulty statement since the Dorman cop arrives at the intersection at the time when Mrs. Kennedy BEGINS climbing on the trunk.
So, how is it? Is McLain the Dorman cop at the intersection, or is he the cop standing still halfway through Houston? He can’t be both, no.
Can you at last make up your mind?
Keep afirming this like a holy mantra doesn’t make it so. You have to show it.
And no, it wasn’t ”three” shots, it was at least five rifle shots, of which the fourth, the shot from the knoll, was the fatal head shot.
The probability for this not being so is less than 1/100 000.
Does it now. Read above and respond.
”Everyone else” in this thread are sworn members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut. Funny thing is, or I should say tragic, that this is a forum dedicated to scientific skepticism.
Who needs scientific rigor when there is religious eye-balling?
Here is where you drive of the road. Everytime. You do not know the exact position or exact speed before you are making the exact meassurements. Problem is, the existing photographic record doesn’t allow such meassurements because it’s incomplete. That is, it could at least be in between 1-6 seconds between when Hughes stopped filming and the first shot.
There is so far no way of knowing more than that.
You are saying that car-5 is possible to pin down with sufficient precision in order to deside exactly the number of seconds at McLains disposal, but that is not true. You are eye-balling and assuming a certain speed through the relevant time sequence when this is exactly what has to be scientifically established.
You are asuming what is have to be proven.
Why do you belive that the fact that you where a lousy ”conspiracy theorist” makes you a good member of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut?
Or, maybe that’s the point?
Axxman300
Philosopher
He just did. You've lost.
Absolutely not. This is a long dead CT lie.
And yet you're the one acting on faith while the science supports Oswald's guilt. You have stated that the CIA was behind the assassination, a statement based on faith, not facts. You have stated that the DPD, Secret Service, FBI, and key witnesses who testified in such a way that undermines your world view all lied - an act of faith.
Your god of conspiracy is dead.
The automobile insurance industry will disagree with your assessment.
No, he is stating the obvious.
Because (like me) he is onto your scam. We both know how to work the other side of the picket fence by defending the undependable with misdirection, and demanding an unreal standard of proof which is denied even if attained. We're not close-minded, most of us are still open to a conspiracy in this case for the same reasons CTers are - the idea of a jackwagon like Oswald getting the drop on JFK sucks, but that's what happened.
The difference between us and people like you is that the evidence is the evidence, and the dictabelt is not evidence. If there was a conspiracy involving Oswald and someone else you have to look elsewhere because you won't find it in Dealey Plaza. More importantly, if there was a conspiracy you are aiding and abetting the criminals involved by flinging CT poo. Oswald made all three shots, this is a fact.
Did someone else know what he was planning? Did someone else help him? Was he hoping to meet someone after the assassination? Those are technically still open questions. No, they're not as sexy as a gunman on the Grassy Knoll because they require real hard leg-work to answer, and they probably can never be answered definitively at this point. Some have tried though, and their work keeps the conspiracy door open just a crack. But until new photographs, diaries, or new tangible evidence are revealed we are stuck with Oswald all by himself making the kill.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
You left me nothing to post in reply to manifesto's garbage... so I wont. I'll just let this stand!
Answer my question. Is McLain the Dorman cop or is he standing still in the middle of Houston when Dorman cop arrives at the intersection?
Hiding behind nonsense spamming coreligionists is just silly.
Show some backbone and defend your proclamations.
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Link? Be specific.
No, you know nothing about them, as you've proved. Prove you are tellig the truth by describing how the HSCA acoustic crap was shown to be in error.
No, you've shown that you are incapable of independent thought.
No, you're simply childishly denying over and over all the mountains of evidence against you.
Ok, you got that right about a CT website doing your thinking.
What is your comprehensive hypothesis for how JFK was assassinated? Note that it must account for ALL of the evidence with no anomolies.
I'll assume that you are admitting that you know nothing about the assassination beyond what your CT website tells you to think if you are unable to answer.
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
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Hasn't this already been answered?
Like... here:
It's quite clear which cop has been identified as McClain.
If you want to show he can reach the right spot, to fit within the conditions of the acoustic evidence, for the pulse patterns to match a rifle shot to your oft quoted probability, you will have to actually show it yourself, not try and pick holes in conflicting evidence, or you won't convince posters here of your point.
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Your child-like denials would be precious if said by a child. Why did Oswald try to murder more officers in the theater with his revolver after assassinating JFK and murdering officer Tippitt?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
This is getting really old. We've all defended our claims numerous times, We've spoon fed you the evidence, but you just ignore it, or lie by telling us we never posted it, and then keep demanding the same evidence over an over again.
Once and for all, I'm not talking about the Dorman film, I'm talking about the Hughes film.
[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/y50o93jsyiszcsp/JFK-Hughes-McLain.jpg?raw=1[/qimg]
The motorcycle cop in the foreground is Officer HB McLain... in that position, at approx H-660, there is no possible way he could have proceeded far enough forward for his allegedly open microphone to have recorded the THREE shots that were fired, even if he had not stopped (which he did).
The only place McLain could have been if he heard the gunshot and saw the pigeons fly away from the TSBD in front of him is if he was on Houston facing north.
The only place McLain could have been if he had to look to his left (west) to see Jackie climbing onto the trunk is if he was on Houston facing north.
This establishes that McLain was on Houston, facing north when the first gunshot rang out, therefore, he could NOT have been where he needed to be to fit your precious theory... ergo YOUR THEORY IS WRONG!!!
We know for a fact this is HB McLain because he identified it as being him. He knew which car he was escorting, along with Officer Marion Baker, who confirmed what McLain said about the gunshot, and the flock of pigeons flying away from the TSBD. They could only have seen that on Houston street.... FACING NORTH!!!!!
Now, I'm not playing your stupid game any more. If you are claiming that the officer in the above photo is not HB Mclain, then it would need to be someone else... and the burden of proof is on you to show who that someone else is. If it was someone else, I would have expected that officer to have come forward and say it was him... no-one has, only officer McLain has claimed it was him, supported by Officer Baker.
Ball's in your court. If you keep asking me to support this claim, I will just keep posting this again.
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indeed, you should
bknight
Master Poster
You of course have a citation for this allegation? Why not post it along with your comment, err is it speculation?
bknight
Master Poster
You of course have a citation to this allegation? Why not post it? Speculation is most likely in this instance, but I could be wrong.
Incorrect. The cop in the Dorman film doesn't clear the retaining wall at the intersection of Houston and Elm until Z431, which is shown here:
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z431.jpg
Jackie has climbed back inside the limosuine well before.
Interestingly, both Baker and McLain have exactly the same recollection of their reactions to hearing gunfire. Both of them describe looking up Houston street and seeing birds fly off of the depository roof. Baker also says they were nowhere further than 60-80 feet down Houston street when the gunfire rang out.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Now, tell us what happened after you turned on to Houston Street?
Mr. BAKER - AS I got myself straightened up there, I guess it took me some 20, 30 feet, something like that, and it was about that time that I heard these shots come out.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Could you just tell us what you heard and what you saw and what you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I got, like I say as I got straightened up there, I was, I don't know when these shots started coming off, I just--it seemed to me like they were high, and I just happened to look right straight up---
Mr. DULLES - I wonder if you would just tell us on that chart and I will try to follow with the record where you were at this time, you were coming down Houston.
Mr. BELIN - Sir, if you can--I plan to get that actual chart in a minute. If we could----
Mr. DULLES - I want to see where he was vis-a-vis the building on the chart there.
Mr. BAKER - This is Main Street and this is Houston. This is the corner that I am speaking of; I made the right turn here. The motorcade and all, as I was here turning the front car was turning up here, and as I got somewhere about right here----
Mr. DULLES - That is halfway down the first block.
Mr. BELIN - No, sir; can I interrupt you for a minute?
Mr. DULLES - Certainly.
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when we were in Dallas on March 20, Friday, you walked over with me and showed me about the point you thought your motorcycle was when you heard the first shot, do you remember doing that?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - And then we paced this off measuring it from a distance which could be described as the north curbline of Main Street as extended?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; that would be this one right across here.
Mr. BELIN - And we paced it off as to where you thought your motorcycle was when you heard the first shot and do you remember offhand about where you said this was as to what distance it was, north of the north curbline of Main Street?
Mr. BAKER - We approximated it was 60 to 80 feet there, north of the north curbline of Main on Houston.
McLain and Baker were parnered in the motorcade, assigned to a specific spot in the procession and riding tandem the entire way. Just more evidence that McLain is correct in his placement.
He can both stop on Houston and arrive at the intersection later. How do you not get that yet?
When McLain first appears in the Dorman film, it's at D456, equivalent to Z365, but he has not gotten to the Elm Street intersection yet. That officer wouldn't get around the retaining wall at Houston and Elm until Z431.
From when he appears at Z150 to when he actually gets to the intersection, over 15 seconds would have elapsed. More than enough time to get stopped on Houston (corroborated by Courson), hear the shot, then proceed to the intersection. At any point after hearing the shot, he could have looked to his left through the park and seen Jackie on the trunk of the car.
There is nothing inconsistent about his statement, and nearly all of it is corroborated by other officers on the scene.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution"
- Jay "Utah" Windley
Axxman300
Philosopher
Heads up! New Document Dump from the National Archives last week (4/26/18):
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release
Have fun.
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release
Have fun.
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