Ed Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday

[acbytesla]

Lol

It’s obstruction, then it isn’t obstruction because Trumps too dumb to pull off obstruction.

Thanks guys, this is truly fun to read.

Clearly Trump didn't know what obstruction of justice was when he went around asking law enforcement officers to look the other way and then admitting it on National Television with Lester Holt. Bill Clinton went to law school and would know IF you're going to do that, best not broadcast it.

You can argue many things, but even you have to conclude Trump's actions weren't very smart.

 

[davefoc]

I think Giuliani like Christie and Scaramouchi (sp?) are Trump groupies. They still want to be in the in-crowd. It sounds like Giuliani told Trump he could get the Mueller investigation stopped. Trump is out of lawyer options, and the rest of the story ensues.

I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves. Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection? Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

A theory is that Christie was payed a crap load to come on board of Trump's campaign. If he did it just for the possibility of a high level appointment he was pretty calm when that didn't happen. I don't have much of a Giuliani theory. I understand I think Trump's idea. Giuliani will serve as an attack dog on Fox News and he will provide support for Trump's craziness from a well know individual, other people will do the day to day lawyer stuff. I don't know what's motivating Giuliani. The money? One more moment of the publicity that he craves? Is Hannity a true believer? He spouts the craziest theories and seems completely uncoupled to the idea that truth is a good thing. Is this just partisan biases or is this well thought out cynicism?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves. Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection? Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

A theory is that Christie was payed a crap load to come on board of Trump's campaign. If he did it just for the possibility of a high level appointment he was pretty calm when that didn't happen. I don't have much of a Giuliani theory. I understand I think Trump's idea. Giuliani will serve as an attack dog on Fox News and he will provide support for Trump's craziness from a well know individual, other people will do the day to day lawyer stuff. I don't know what's motivating Giuliani. The money? One more moment of the publicity that he craves? Is Hannity a true believer? He spouts the craziest theories and seems completely uncoupled to the idea that truth is a good thing. Is this just partisan biases or is this well thought out cynicism?

Hi, welcome back to the forum.

IMO, Trump appears to have been a social magnate, if you are invited to parties Trump is at, if you know him and can name drop, if you get to hang out with him or are invited to a soiree he's at, you get Brownie points to put in your social hat.

He's very sociable because Trump is looking for the same thing, bragging rights to being the guy everyone wants to be around.

Look at those Fox idiots around him, Kudlow looks ecstatic to be at the big boy's table.

Honeymoons don't last long, Trump ***** on anyone if it is convenient. But some of them, like Christie, come back for more. Both Giuliani and Christie no doubt, have kissed a lot of Trump ass before. I'm sure there has been money falling out of Trump's pockets at strategic moments.

 

[logger]

Clearly Trump didn't know what obstruction of justice was when he went around asking law enforcement officers to look the other way and then admitting it on National Television with Lester Holt. Bill Clinton went to law school and would know IF you're going to do that, best not broadcast it.

You can argue many things, but even you have to conclude Trump's actions weren't very smart.

Which is why he won’t be impeached and certainly not removed from office.

 

[quadraginta]

I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves.

They don't. Not most of them, at least. I'm not so sure about Trump.

Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection?

I think that's a good description of the people they are speaking to.

Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

<snip>

No particular skill is required. The last few years have made it clear that when speaking to their right wing-nut supporters they can say almost anything at all with complete impunity. Their intended audience will lap it up. And they don't give a damn about anyone else.

All the deflection that seems to be needed anymore are vague references to "fake news" and the "leebral meedjuh". They don't even bother with defending any claims they make. Just ignore any criticism and continue, or at most ignore and let it drop, and then bring it up again after a little cooling off time* has gone by.

*An interval which seems to be shrinking.

 

[Cain]

I have wondered about the motivations of some of these folks. Are there true believer Trump groupies among his higher level public supporters?

A lot of these folks spit out lies so transparent that it seems unlikely that they could believe the lies themselves. Maybe this is just an artifact of partisan thought. It can displace critical thinking and introspection? Or are these just cynical people who have attained a skill at spitting out partisan blather that various Trump supporting groups want to hear?

A theory is that Christie was payed a crap load to come on board of Trump's campaign. If he did it just for the possibility of a high level appointment he was pretty calm when that didn't happen. I don't have much of a Giuliani theory. I understand I think Trump's idea. Giuliani will serve as an attack dog on Fox News and he will provide support for Trump's craziness from a well know individual, other people will do the day to day lawyer stuff. I don't know what's motivating Giuliani. The money? One more moment of the publicity that he craves? Is Hannity a true believer? He spouts the craziest theories and seems completely uncoupled to the idea that truth is a good thing. Is this just partisan biases or is this well thought out cynicism?

Trump doesn't pay well. Christie was supposed to be the VP, and I think that's why he kissed ass. Guiliani probably wants to be Attorney General. Mitt Romney endured public humiliation just for a chance at Secretary of State. Hannity and Limbaugh follow their audiences as much as lead them.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Lol

It’s obstruction, then it isn’t obstruction because Trumps too dumb to pull off obstruction.

Thanks guys, this is truly fun to read.

LOL, nope, that's not how it works; incompetence is no defense for obstruction of justice. Any attempt at obstruction is obstruction, even if it's completely boneheaded.

 

[logger]

LOL, nope, that's not how it works; incompetence is no defense for obstruction of justice. Any attempt at obstruction is obstruction, even if it's completely boneheaded.

Lol

Sure worked for gross negligence of handling classified material.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Lol

Sure worked for gross negligence of handling classified material.

The conversation was about obstruction. Whatever standards apply to different laws are different because it isn't the same law.

 

[Amazer]

Lol

Sure worked for gross negligence of handling classified material.

Lol, that's not what this thread is about.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

 

[davefoc]

Trump doesn't pay well. Christie was supposed to be the VP, and I think that's why he kissed ass. Guiliani probably wants to be Attorney General. Mitt Romney endured public humiliation just for a chance at Secretary of State. Hannity and Limbaugh follow their audiences as much as lead them.

I don't disagree with anything you said here, but even well informed guessing is not the same thing as knowing. Christie was a key player for Trump. I think he might have been the first main stream supporter at a time when it looked like he might not attract any. Maybe Christie's main motivation as you suggest was being offered the possibility of the VP slot. Before this my impression of Christie was that he was a routine moderate Republican from a state where the more strident conservatives that seem to control the party now couldn't have won. And all of a sudden he is supporting one of the biggest whack jobs ever to run for the presidency. That seems like a big ideological swing. I guess the idea here is that for Christie ideology was never much of a driver and he could change directions in an instant when he saw opportunity. Still I suspect significant money (at least from Christie's perspective) moved in Christie's direction or he wouldn't have done it.

Pence may have been the biggest hypocrite in all this. A big promoter of conservative Christian ideals jumps on board with a wildly dishonest, corrupt and morally decrepit individual because his particular brand of lying seems to be catching on with Pence type voters.

The arc of Giuliani's career is a bit like that of Christie's except that in addition to the transition from moderate Republican to a Republican hyper partisan supporting the most conservative elements in the party he seems to have become a bit mentally off as he has aged.

I don't know of any interviews where any of the men I mentioned above have ever candidly discussed their motivations. If they did it might ruin their careers. But maybe the answer is the one I would prefer not to believe, high level politicians are just very cynical people who are driven by their own self interest.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I just want to memorialise the fact that logger is now on record as agreeing that Trump's actions haven't been very smart.

 

[logger]

I just want to memorialise the fact that logger is now on record as agreeing that Trump's actions haven't been very smart.

Some of his actions.

I’m also on record posting that he is a rogue. Oh my!

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Some of his actions.

I'd be interested in hearing which of his actions you do consider to be very smart.

 

[Cain]

I don't disagree with anything you said here, but even well informed guessing is not the same thing as knowing.

Well, of course. People may not even be aware of their own motivations. Self-deception is a powerful force, and I'd guess it plays a bigger in our actions than most people assume.

Christie was a key player for Trump. I think he might have been the first main stream supporter at a time when it looked like he might not attract any. Maybe Christie's main motivation as you suggest was being offered the possibility of the VP slot. Before this my impression of Christie was that he was a routine moderate Republican from a state where the more strident conservatives that seem to control the party now couldn't have won. And all of a sudden he is supporting one of the biggest whack jobs ever to run for the presidency. That seems like a big ideological swing.

But this seems pretty common for Republicans with national ambitions (e.g., governor Romney to presidential candidate Romney). Politicians notoriously become change with the wind. In the case of Giuliani, I think he was friends with Trump for awhile.

I don't know of any interviews where any of the men I mentioned above have ever candidly discussed their motivations. If they did it might ruin their careers. But maybe the answer is the one I would prefer not to believe, high level politicians are just very cynical people who are driven by their own self interest.

One that you didn't mention was Newt Gingrich (as detestable as he is ambitious).

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I don't disagree with anything you said here, but even well informed guessing is not the same thing as knowing. Christie was a key player for Trump. I think he might have been the first main stream supporter at a time when it looked like he might not attract any. Maybe Christie's main motivation as you suggest was being offered the possibility of the VP slot. Before this my impression of Christie was that he was a routine moderate Republican from a state where the more strident conservatives that seem to control the party now couldn't have won. And all of a sudden he is supporting one of the biggest whack jobs ever to run for the presidency. That seems like a big ideological swing. I guess the idea here is that for Christie ideology was never much of a driver and he could change directions in an instant when he saw opportunity. Still I suspect significant money (at least from Christie's perspective) moved in Christie's direction or he wouldn't have done it.

Christie's political reputation was in the gutter before the whole Trump bandwagon came rolling along. His name was pretty much worthless in New Jersey and I doubt he had much future in politics. Jumping on board with Trump may have been just a move of desperation.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/989525763568398336

The Senate Judiciary Committee has voted to advance the bill to protect the special counsel. The vote was 14-7.

Grassley, Graham, Flake, and Tillis voted with every Democrat to send it to the full Senate.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Why the recent proof that Trump lied about not having spent a night in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant may considerably strengthen the case against him of obstructing the Russia probe

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Why the recent proof that Trump lied about not having spent a night in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant may considerably strengthen the case against him of obstructing the Russia probe

Every day, the existence of the pee tape is becoming more and more feasible. What a time to be alive.

 

[davefoc]

Christie's political reputation was in the gutter before the whole Trump bandwagon came rolling along. His name was pretty much worthless in New Jersey and I doubt he had much future in politics. Jumping on board with Trump may have been just a move of desperation.

A valid point. It is conceivable that some combination of attempting to sustain a political career including a shot at the vice presidency might have been the main driver for Christie. Given my perception of Trump as a wildly corrupt and dishonest individual with a lifetime of failures caused by his ineptness it is still strange to me that Christie would have assisted him for any reason. In addition to the lying, corruption and incompetence Trump has also demonstrated extremely non-empathetic behavior that has bordered on mentally unbalanced throughout his life. Christie might have seen some of that as a warning that even if he was willing to set aside principles to support Trump, Trump would screw him without a second thought if Trump perceived it in his interest to do so.

...
One that you didn't mention was Newt Gingrich (as detestable as he is ambitious).

Newt is interesting to me. He has moments of lucid introspective discussion mixed in with his wildly partisan hypocritical blather. It isn't a surprise to me that he would have set aside his principles to support Trump. I'm not sure he has principles but if he does he has demonstrated throughout his life that he has no problem setting them aside to promote his partisan agenda.