Cont: School shooting Florida - pt 2

smartcooky said:
Oh yes... anyone making such a stupid statement shows that not only do they not understand social media, they severely underestimate its power.
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That's not the only thing they underestimate.

They keep talking about "children" as if it was meaningful in any way other than a misdirection. These "children" are mostly only a year or two from becoming "adults" in the legal sense of the word. If they were in court for some crime the same people would be clamoring for their treatment as adults.

To me it is more surprising that some people find it incredible that these young adults are capable of such organization than it is that they are doing it.
 
quadraginta said:
That's not the only thing they underestimate.

They keep talking about "children" as if it was meaningful in any way other than a misdirection. These "children" are mostly only a year or two from becoming "adults" in the legal sense of the word. If they were in court for some crime the same people would be clamoring for their treatment as adults.

To me it is more surprising that some people find it incredible that these young adults are capable of such organization than it is that they are doing it.
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As a "child of the 60's" I recall young people organizing some rather large rallies and protests with no social media at all.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
That doesn't mean that I buy into the ridiculous conspiracy theory that the students themselves organized a grassroots movement in response to a mass shooting at their school and that's taken over the world because they have the moral imperative.
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How is that a conspiracy theory? What’s the conspiracy?

These kids are feeling genuine moral outrage but that outrage is being manipulated by adults behind the scenes and channeled to push a political agenda and has been starting on the day of the shooting.
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How is that not a conspiracy theory? What evidence to you have to support this claim?

I don't see any problem with criticizing these kids or calling them out for their BS.
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Let’s not pretend the goal here is anything so lofty as critical analysis or honest discourse. It’s a smear campaign, plain and simple.

They are public figures who deserve to be mocked, ridiculed, and held accountable for what they say and do as much as any public figure. The fact that they are children doesn't mean we should tread lightly in dealing them or worry about hurting their feelings. They don't get a pass just because of what they experienced. The kids who are not in the limelight shouldn't be hounded by the press but Emma and David should have everything they say fact checked and not taken at face value.
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The highlighted is as close as you come to telling the truth in this post, because that’s the only thing this is about. It’s why Ted Nugent called them “soulless” and Laura Ingraham ridiculed one of them for not getting into a certain college. It’s pure agenda-driven hatred.
 
Steve said:
As a "child of the 60's" I recall young people organizing some rather large rallies and protests with no social media at all.
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Haha... I can't believe you buy into that conspiracy theory. Next you’ll be telling me that we landed on the moon and the Earth isn’t flat.
 
johnny karate said:
Haha... I can't believe you buy into that conspiracy theory. Next you’ll be telling me that we landed on the moon and the Earth isn’t flat.
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I don't know about the earth but the moon is as flat as a dinner plate. Just look at it! That is all the evidence anyone needs. No-one could "land" on that - they would slide right off.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
And people ask me why I think that large swaths of the public believe these kids did all this on their own?
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No, we already know that you like to distort what you read in strange and nonsensical ways. People not severely denigrating the actual actions of the kids and their effects somehow converts to "the kids did this all on their own" to you, after all. Do you seriously need every technicality spelled out every time?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
After letting this nonsense soak in a bit more, I am reminded of my father who during my high school years told me the commies were recruiting kids on college campuses to oppose the Vietnam war.

:sdl:
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Give the old man a break. Back then it was "commies" riling up opposition to the war. Today the it's "Nazis" preaching "hate speech" and "triggering" students with their "microaggressions." I agree with you. It is :sdl:


It was absurd then and it's absurd now thinking someone is manipulating these teen activists. They couldn't be more sincere, IMO.
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:sdl:


Oddly, many of the same people making such accusations are oblivious to or they dismiss the manipulation that went on and is going on via internet trolls and bots injecting and amplifying fake stories into the social media stream.
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Yes, because "trolls" and "bots" injecting "fake" stories into the social media stream totally isn't a conspiracy theory. :sdl:
 
Steve said:
I don't know about the earth but the moon is as flat as a dinner plate. Just look at it! That is all the evidence anyone needs. No-one could "land" on that - they would slide right off.
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No, it''s all sticky because of the green cheese.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
...


Yes, because "trolls" and "bots" injecting "fake" stories into the social media stream totally isn't a conspiracy theory. :sdl:
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:rolleyes:

Come on Cap'n, the bots and trolls injecting fake news into the social network is WELL DOCUMENTED!!!

There were no commies responsible for duping young people and instigating the Vietnam war protests. It did not happen. Steve's comment, OTOH, has some truth only in that some of the young people thought communism would be great. It was a minority of the crowd.
 
CaptainHowdy really?! The reason the March for our Lives movement is strong is because it is lead by teenagers. The adults have tried to get gun safety laws enacted but gave up because of politics. Teenagers don't give a crap about politics so they aren't backing down. The teenagers are not paid actors, being manipulated, or simply doing the bidding of adults.

Also, Zdravstvuyte! Kak dela?
 
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thaiboxerken said:
CaptainHowdy really?! The reason the March for our Lives movement is strong is because it is lead by teenagers.
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Err... not quite. The reason that it's gained strength is far more that it's tapping into larger concerns that have been growing for a fair while. The leaders among the Parkland teens are serving more of a rallying cry and a beacon. That they're teenagers is a minor factor compared to that they're acting as representatives of the victims of a truly massive amount of failure from many quarters. That the same forces that have been dishonestly and unscrupulously pushing some of the major measures that have been helping to cause such failures are pushing out lots of absurd and nasty propaganda towards them is also setting up a hard to ignore victimized good guys vs. rotten evil bad guys narrative. There's plenty more that could be said, but that the leaders are teenagers is somewhat incidental. Important to a few things, yes, but greatly overshadowed by the larger things.

thaiboxerken said:
The adults have tried to get gun safety laws enacted but gave up because of politics. Teenagers don't give a crap about politics so they aren't backing down. The teenagers are not paid actors, being manipulated, or simply doing the bidding of adults.
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They're not the first or third, rather certainly. "Manipulation" is harder to agree with, because what it can cover is far, far too broad. One could technically and honestly call a person asking their spouse to pick up milk on their way home "manipulation," after all, and it's not hard to just darken the tone with pointed omissions to make it sound significantly more unpleasant than it would sound with the full story.
 
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quadraginta said:
"Conspiracy"? Yeah.

"Theory"? Well, it isn't a "theory" any more. The evidence that it was (and is) being done is extensive and compelling.
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One of the things I see these days is that there are a bunch of people who will just mindlessly repeat some catch phrases, whether or not they even understand them. "Fake news" didn't start with Donald Trump saying that about CNN. It really happened. It wasn't just unfavorable spin from a network that was unfriendly. It was just plain made up stuff, being passed around the internet, masquerading as news.

Now, however, people use the phrase mindlessly to label politically unfriendly media outlets.

We saw it earlier with "crisis actors". That phrase has a meaning, and idiots on the internet actually claimed that the Parkland kids were crisis actors. That's ridiculous. However, the claim has been repeated by people who don't even know what a crisis actor is. The right wing doesn't hold a monopoly on this, either. It's kind of disconcerting, that people repeat lies so easily, without even understanding what they are saying.


But, to Captain Howdy. Yes. Trolls and bots really have been injecting fake news stories, not just unfavorably spun stories, into the internet, including about the Parkland kids. I don't know if you have fallen for any of them, but it is really happening, and yes, Russians really have been behind a lot of it. (I don't know if specifically the fake stories about Parkland have evidence of Russian involvement.)
 
Aridas said:
Err... not quite. The reason that it's gained strength is far more that it's tapping into larger concerns that have been growing for a fair while. The leaders among the Parkland teens are serving more of a rallying cry and a beacon.
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That's what I think of them. I wouldn't even call them "leaders". They were just kids who lost a bunch of friends and said, "This is friggin' stupid!" And said they were going to organize.


For an historical analogy, I would compare them to Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks is now seen as a heroine, but really, all she did was refuse to give up a bus seat to a white guy. It was a simple act, but it was just at the right time, and a bunch of people, including real leaders of the civil rights movement, rallied around her.

My comparison of the kids to Rosa Parks isn't meant to put them in the same league of significance. I don't think the gun control movement is on the same level. I'm just saying that these kids aren't the real leaders of the gun control movement. I don't think it has any real leaders that I know of. These kids are just the symbol of why we feel like there needs to be gun control.
 
johnny karate said:
How is that a conspiracy theory? What’s the conspiracy?



How is that not a conspiracy theory? What evidence to you have to support this claim?
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We've been over this already. I say these kids didn't organize this all on their own--that there were adults behind the scenes. You say that's a conspiracy theory. I reference a story in the WaPo or NYT detailing all the organizations that had been working with the students behind the scenes from day one. You then say there's no conspiracy theory because you knew that all along. Now it's back to being a conspiracy theory. I give up. You're right. David and Emma and all the other students did this all by themselves.

Let’s not pretend the goal here is anything so lofty as critical analysis or honest discourse. It’s a smear campaign, plain and simple.
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I agree with you. These students haven't made any concrete proposals that can be analyzed or discussed. They're not interested in reducing gun violence. They want to destroy the NRA and repeal the 2nd amendment.

They might even succeed. But there will still be guns in America just like there are in every other country around the world. And the problem won't be addressed and this sort of thing will happen again and again.


The highlighted is as close as you come to telling the truth in this post, because that’s the only thing this is about. It’s why Ted Nugent called them “soulless” and Laura Ingraham ridiculed one of them for not getting into a certain college. It’s pure agenda-driven hatred.
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When the David Hogg is saying that anybody who disagrees with wants to see more dead children, you can't be surprised if some people react with equally ridiculous hyperbole.

But I disagree with what Ted Nugent and Laura Igraham said. Ted was just being stupid and Laura was just mean. Instead of acting like a couple of high school seniors they should've pointed out that Sheriff Scott Israel is the person most responsible for this tragedy, not the NRA. They had the chance to rise above the David Hoggs of the world and focus the blame where it belongs. They blew it.
 
quadraginta said:
Probably more agitators planted by the FBI to try and turn the demonstrations ugly than actual commies, who wouldn't have wanted that anyway..
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It was George Soros, not the FBI. Not him personally. He was too old in the 1960s to pass as a college student. But he financed it
 
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