Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[MicahJava]

Let us see what you have cited. None other than a CT who has been patiently debunked for his "opinions" of facts. Pat makes light of the fact that witnesses changed their narrative of the incident with years passing and memory fading. It is Speer who needs to stand in front of a mirror and do an evaluation of himself. Oh that won't happen since he has so much capital invested in his CT beliefs. MJ you really shouldn't cite a person like this.

bknight, Max Holland thinks the first loud report occoured before Zapruder even started filming. Meanwhile in reality, there are literally no witness statements to the shooting that said Kennedy continued to smile and wave after the first shot. The ones closest to the shooting described Kennedy reacting to the first loud report like he does after the z220's. Pat Speer talks about this on his website with the most well-catalogued list of witness statements I have ever seen.

 

[MicahJava]

Ooh! I just remembered, the story behind the Willis 5 photograph is also strong evidence against the single bullet theory. The photograph is the equivalent of Z202-210 and Phillip Willis always said that he snapped that photograph at the instant the first loud report occurred, and that the loud report startled him and caused him to click the shutter button.

Connally's lapel flap occurs at z224.

 

[smartcooky]

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/fall_winter_2001/article02.html Max Holland was paid by the CIA to write about JFK. Proof on the CIA's own website. He published a JFK article in their journal Studies In Intelligence, fall/winter 2001.

Nice reading comprehension skills guys.

Its your reading comprehension skills that are in doubt.

Nowhere in any of what you posted (or in any link you posted) does it say that Holland was paid by the CIA for his work on the Lost Bullet theory (which is what YOU implied by writing your crazy loon ideas as part of your reply to the post in question)

smartcooky, The single-bullet theory demonstration was faked and the hole in the traffic sign is part of the design of the traffic sign. Max Holland is a shill. Deal with it.

I call BS.

Let me introduce you to Willis Lamm, a collector of vintage traffic signals. He knows otherwise!

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/signals01.html

His expertise was called on when they tried to recreate the bullet/traffic signal scenario. He built the replicas they used.

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/eagle03c.html

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/eagle03d.html

This cuts the legs out from under your BS. I'll bet you didn't expect your blatant lie could be checked up on did you!!?

bknight, Max Holland thinks the first loud report occoured before Zapruder even started filming. Meanwhile in reality, there are literally no witness statements to the shooting that said Kennedy continued to smile and wave after the first shot. The ones closest to the shooting described Kennedy reacting to the first loud report like he does after the z220's. Pat Speer talks about this on his website with the most well-catalogued list of witness statements I have ever seen.

Its not out of the question that he could be right. There are so many different accounts of the timings. Even you quoted Connally as saying 12 seconds across the three shots.... care to revise that assertion now?

 

[MicahJava]

Its your reading comprehension skills that are in doubt.

Nowhere in any of what you posted (or in any link you posted) does it say that Holland was paid by the CIA for his work on the Lost Bullet theory (which is what YOU implied by writing your crazy loon ideas as part of your reply to the post in question)



I call BS.

Let me introduce you to Willis Lamm, a collector of vintage traffic signals. He knows otherwise!

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/signals01.html

His expertise was called on when they tried to recreate the bullet/traffic signal scenario. He built the replicas they used.

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/eagle03c.html

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/eagle03d.html

This cuts the legs out from under your BS. I'll bet you didn't expect your blatant lie could be checked up on did you!!?




Its not out of the question that he could be right. There are so many different accounts of the timings. Even you quoted Connally as saying 12 seconds across the three shots.... care to revise that assertion now?

Max Hollan literally admitted right after the Lost Bullet special aired that the hole in the traffic sign was caused naturally. You would know this if you bothered to read the link I gave you before.

Directly from an article written by Max Holland: http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2016/08/the-.html

After hanging the exemplar light and viewing it from roughly the same perspective as the USSS training film, the view through the drilled “bullet” hole showed that the intervening base lip, that was presumed to form a deflection surface, obscures the view (figure 18, right). The viewing also revealed that a gap opening exists in the corner between the right and bottom back plates and produces a visible unobstructed hole in the same location as the “possible bullet hole” that was observed in the USSS training film (figure 16). Consequently, the hole was eliminated as a possible bullet hole. Still, that finding did not provide closure regarding the Eagle signal as the possible obstruction and cause of deflection.

That Nat Geo special is literally less than worthless to a point where historians will literally study it for it's crap factor. It's poisoning the mind of anybody who watches it and takes it seriously.

 

[Axxman300]

Max Holland was paid by the CIA to write about JFK. Proof on the CIA's own website. He published a JFK article in their journal Studies In Intelligence, fall/winter 2001.

Nice reading comprehension skills guys.

I posted that link in my previous post.

Wouldn't brag about reading skills if I were you.

More importantly, so what? So what if the CIA paid him to write an article? They contract out all the time, and it's a hell of an honor to be asked.

If you had bothered to read any of the newly released documents you'd know the CIA wasn't involved in the assassination, and that they tried to link Oswald to Cuba and or the Soviets, but couldn't do it.

 

[Axxman300]

bknight, Max Holland thinks the first loud report occoured before Zapruder even started filming.

It makes sense, certainly better theory than anything the CT crowd have belched up.

This is Holland making his case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHrxyGF6ZIw

Meanwhile in reality, there are literally no witness statements to the shooting that said Kennedy continued to smile and wave after the first shot.

This assumes everyone heard it, and knew it was a gunshot. Nobody was hit.

Pat Speer talks about this on his website with the most well-catalogued list of witness statements I have ever seen.

Your source material has been found lacking.

 

[smartcooky]

Max Hollan literally admitted right after the Lost Bullet special aired that the hole in the traffic sign was caused naturally. You would know this if you bothered to read the link I gave you before.

Directly from an article written by Max Holland: http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2016/08/the-.html

After hanging the exemplar light and viewing it from roughly the same perspective as the USSS training film, the view through the drilled “bullet” hole showed that the intervening base lip, that was presumed to form a deflection surface, obscures the view (figure 18, right). The viewing also revealed that a gap opening exists in the corner between the right and bottom back plates and produces a visible unobstructed hole in the same location as the “possible bullet hole” that was observed in the USSS training film (figure 16). Consequently, the hole was eliminated as a possible bullet hole. Still, that finding did not provide closure regarding the Eagle signal as the possible obstruction and cause of deflection.

I read it... and so what?

The existence of the hole means nothing other than it may or may not have been caused by the bullet. It is also not part of the design (as you claimed), but is a defect... one that may or may not exist in every traffic signal of that type; they are not exactly precision engineered items.

It also does not speak at all to the possibility that the bullet might still have struck the traffic signal and fragmented without leaving a hole, with at least some parts of it striking the pavement and Tague...

That Nat Geo special is literally less than worthless to a point where historians will literally study it for it's crap factor. It's poisoning the mind of anybody who watches it and takes it seriously.

That is your opinion; mine differs.

Thus far, I have seen nothing from you that earns you enough credibility for me to consider your opinion to be anything more than totally worthless... you misrepresent evidence, you won't answer questions about your ideas and your statements, you continually lie and then run away when your bluffs and called and your lies are rumbled, and you do more fringe resets than a boat load of hairdressers. We can add to this the fact that your get most of your "information" from nutcase conspiracy echo-chambers.

 

[MicahJava]

I posted that link in my previous post.

Wouldn't brag about reading skills if I were you.

More importantly, so what? So what if the CIA paid him to write an article? They contract out all the time, and it's a hell of an honor to be asked.

If you had bothered to read any of the newly released documents you'd know the CIA wasn't involved in the assassination, and that they tried to link Oswald to Cuba and or the Soviets, but couldn't do it.

JFK Files: J. Edgar Hoover Said Public Must Believe Lee Harvey Oswald Acted Alone

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881

You are like a... factory of incorrect and incoherent nonsense.

 

[MicahJava]

It makes sense, certainly better theory than anything the CT crowd have belched up.

This is Holland making his case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHrxyGF6ZIw




This assumes everyone heard it, and knew it was a gunshot. Nobody was hit.



Your source material has been found lacking.

axxman, ready my link above. The supposed hole in the traffic light was not caused by a bullet.

You should've had a feeling it was BS when James Tague has always swore that his fragment did not fly towards him as a result of the first shot, but rather a later shot.

 

[MicahJava]

Isn't it interesting that MicahJava omits to link Norman's 26-Nov-1963 FBI statement. I wonder why that is? Well, actually, I don't. Because here it is.

The relevant part? Well...



IOW MicahJava's contention that Norman could have not have heard cases falling because his head was out the window is bollocks since his head was not outside the window for any of the three shots.

Furthermore, the FBI statement of 26/11/63 is necessarily brief, given the circumstances.

On top of that, it is SOP to tell eyewitnesses to recall as much as they can and add/amend their statements as necessary. MicahJave seems innocent of this. I am not, having given witness statements and testimony in court.

The bottom line here is that the 26/11/63 statement to the FBI does not say what MicahJava so desperately wants it to say.

And that is why it was not linked.

Abaddon, I do concede that the part about Harold looking out of the window was nitpicking, but just combing the earliest statements of Harold Norman, James Jarman and Bonnie Ray Williams and we see a reason to question the shell casings story.

 

[Axxman300]

JFK Files: J. Edgar Hoover Said Public Must Believe Lee Harvey Oswald Acted Alone

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881

So what?

The FBI spent November, December, and January shaking down their CI's in the Mafia, and Cuban Exile Community looking for leads that would link him to a larger conspiracy. They continued to run down every lead that came into their offices from Mafia pigeons, to crackpot psychics.

The documents show the FBI was actively searching for the truth.

The Hoover stuff is just CT claptrap.

 

[Axxman300]

axxman, ready my link above. The supposed hole in the traffic light was not caused by a bullet.

You should've had a feeling it was BS when James Tague has always swore that his fragment did not fly towards him as a result of the first shot, but rather a later shot.

Tague is not a reliable witness, the echo is just as bad where he was standing as it is anywhere else in the plaza.

Frankly, the first bullet doesn't matter, only the second and third.

 

[smartcooky]

This is Holland making his case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHrxyGF6ZIw

Very, very interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

[smartcooky]

You are like a... factory of incorrect and incoherent nonsense.

He isn't, but you are the source of same

axxman, ready my link above. The supposed hole in the traffic light was not caused by a bullet.

In fact, that is only one theory. Holland's primary theory is that the bullet deflected off the arm holding the traffic signal. This makes more sense give where that bullet (or its fragments) likely ended up

You should've had a feeling it was BS when James Tague has always swore that his fragment did not fly towards him as a result of the first shot, but rather a later shot.

Oh, did you forget about the speed of sound again?

 

[HSienzant]

JFK Files: J. Edgar Hoover Said Public Must Believe Lee Harvey Oswald Acted Alone

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881

You are like a... factory of incorrect and incoherent nonsense.

Hoover's memo was known about for decades. It was declassified in 1978 for goodness sake: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=954#relPageId=476&tab=page

The news article you cited is dated 2017 and pretends this is new information:
The memo is one of at least 52 records never previously made public ...

From the same news item:
Referring to Nicholas Katzenbach, the deputy attorney general at the time, Hoover dictated: "The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

It's not clear from the memo whether Hoover thought there might have been a conspiracy but didn't want it to be known or whether he sincerely believed Oswald acted alone and hoped to head off public fear and confusion.

It was the latter, and if the writer of the nonsense article you cite was more familiar with the assassination he'd know that.

Katzenbach's memo makes it exceedingly clear where he stood, and this has been discussed on these pages in the past.

For example, here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10752920&postcount=2936
Or here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8105284&postcount=3948
Or Here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8092661&postcount=3840

The very first paragraph of his memo, seldom [read: never] quoted by conspiracy books (for instance, see here: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Katzenbach_Memo.html ), says this:
It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way that will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now.

What part of the sentence where Katzenbach wrote "It is important that all the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public" confused you into thinking he and Hoover were talking about a cover-up?

It's clear nobody was talking about a cover-up, but rather, that the United States reveal all the facts of the case to the world.

But of course, as you can see from the link to the Mary Ferrell site above, conspiracy theorists don't like to talk about the first paragraph, which puts everything else in context.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

Abaddon, I do concede that the part about Harold looking out of the window was nitpicking, but just combing the earliest statements of Harold Norman, James Jarman and Bonnie Ray Williams and we see a reason to question the shell casings story.

And what - Prey tell - is that reason?

Hank

 

[abaddon]

Abaddon, I do concede that the part about Harold looking out of the window was nitpicking, but just combing the earliest statements of Harold Norman, James Jarman and Bonnie Ray Williams and we see a reason to question the shell casings story.

Nitpicking? The documentary you cited was clearly attempting to manufacture a conspiracy by means of outright lies.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Abaddon, I do concede that the part about Harold looking out of the window was nitpicking, but just combing the earliest statements of Harold Norman, James Jarman and Bonnie Ray Williams and we see a reason to question the shell casings story.

How many shots do you think Oswald fired then?

It's got to suck for you to have so many questions that you run away from because they destroy ... whatever it is that you're claiming. Running away - the CTists only exercise.

 

[RoboTimbo]

And what - Prey tell - is that reason?

Hank

LOL

 

[MicahJava]

No mention of the Willis 5 photo yet?

[IMGW=600]http://i.imgur.com/aB09sBU.jpg[/IMGw]