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Another inaccurate article on assault weapons.

Fast Eddie B said:
Reagan was shot with a .22, as was Brady and at least one DC officer.

Watching the video of that assassination attempt should disabuse anyone of thinking a .22 is not a serious round.

Though stipulated that had Hinkckley been armed with a larger-caliber weapon, the carnage would have been much more severe.
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Yeah, I've never thought to disabuse anyone of the notion that 22 LR isn't capable of being deadly, or causing serious wounds. Its just less likely to be deadly than almost any other cartridge out there except .25 ACP. Had Hinkley been using 5.56mm HW Bush becomes president much earlier than historically. The 22 round stopped about an inch from Reagan's heart BTW.
 
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lobosrul5 said:
A CAR-15 with a foldable stock will fit in a backpack.
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AR-15's (CAR-15) do not have folding stocks. It can have a telescoping stock which will reduce length by a few inches.

You might be thinking an AR-15 with a very short barrel or an AR-18 which has the operating spring/piston forward of the action instead of the AR-15's buffer/spring in a tube in the stock.
 
Ranb said:
AR-15's (CAR-15) do not have folding stocks. It can have a telescoping stock which will reduce length by a few inches.

You might be thinking an AR-15 with a very short barrel or an AR-18 which has the operating spring/piston forward of the action instead of the AR-15's buffer/spring in a tube in the stock.
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An actual Colt CAR-15 and you'd be correct. But a CAR-15 has become a generic term for any short barreled AR-15. You can put any stock you want on one with pretty basic knowledge. Even then, with a telescoping stock, you could, probably, fit one in a large backpack.
 
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Ranb said:
AR-15's (CAR-15) do not have folding stocks. It can have a telescoping stock which will reduce length by a few inches.

You might be thinking an AR-15 with a very short barrel or an AR-18 which has the operating spring/piston forward of the action instead of the AR-15's buffer/spring in a tube in the stock.
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There are some AR-15 mods that use a folding stock. Can't check the links here ("Weapons" as a category is blocked at work), but I did a google for "CAR-15 folding stock" and found several links and photos.
 
Hellbound said:
Well, at that point, security has already failed. Gunman don't "suddenly appear in a classroom" unless you've already done something wrong. It's not like they pull a rifle out of their backpack in the middle of class. Exterior doors should be locked between classes, at least the "only open from the inside" type door.

And the approach should be caught on security cameras.

The idea is he/she never gets inside the classroom with the gun.

Assuming he does "appear in a classroom", you lock all the other doors to start; leave open some routes for fleeing students/staff to escape away from the shooter. Lock them behind escapees.

No system works without training and drill, and plans can be set up beforehand.

Worst case-scenario, you don't lock down anything until the shooter is in an area by himself, then you lock down that spot.

I fail to see how this would do anything other than decrease casualty counts.
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If you can keep a gunman completely out of a school then you don't need special trap lock doors inside.

Right now we seem to have troubles preventing them from entering school buildings.
 
Polaris said:
Mossad apparently** used .22LR's for assassinations. Maybe they still do - they're not the most transparent bunch.
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I recall that in “Sword of Gideon”, when confronting conspirators of the Munich Olympic massacre, the agents carried a .22 with an empty chamber. Only on positive target confirmation could they chamber a round and complete their mission. Better to lose an agent due to the delay than to accidentally misidentify a target.

The movie “Munich” had one disturbing assassination scene that stuck with me, along those lines.
 
William Parcher said:
If you can keep a gunman completely out of a school then you don't need special trap lock doors inside.
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They aren't "special trap lock doors", but something that's a not-uncommon feature on most electronic lock systems.

In addition, it's part of something called "security in depth", which is a feature of any well-designed security system. You never assume your first measures will work, you back them up with other options. More options means a higher likelihood of one of those options being able to help.

Right now we seem to have troubles preventing them from entering school buildings.
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Yes, and that's probably a better place to start; better security and locking of external doors, and security cameras at least covering approaches to those areas.
 
The .22 has a couple things going for it on assassinations (as I understand, I'm open to anyone with better data), both rely on it being smaller and lower-power than other rounds.

1. It will generally penetrate a skull at close range, but won't go out the other side, so in head shots it'll bounce around inside causing more damage. Not sure of the accuracy of this; it's plausible, but I haven't seen hard data.

2. Being a smaller round, with less powder, it's MUCH easier to silence...and thus go unnoticed. One can see how this might be important for assassinations or other stealth situation.
 
Hellbound said:
There are some AR-15 mods that use a folding stock. Can't check the links here ("Weapons" as a category is blocked at work), but I did a google for "CAR-15 folding stock" and found several links and photos.
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So how is the buffer and spring folded? I think you're confusing the AR-15 direct impingement system with another gun that uses a piston or an ordinary ar-15 with a telescoping stock.
 
Ranb said:
So how is the buffer and spring folded? I think you're confusing the AR-15 direct impingement system with another gun that uses a piston or an ordinary ar-15 with a telescoping stock.
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https://www.google.com/search?q=AR-...nctMnZAhVO2VMKHZ9yDYEQsAQIOg&biw=1680&bih=977

Like I said, I can't get beyond google results from here, but it looks like there's some interface that leaves the recoil spring in the stock and folds it back? Not sure exactly how it's engineered, but I can check when I get home if you can't find it from that.
 
Hellbound said:
https://www.google.com/search?q=AR-...nctMnZAhVO2VMKHZ9yDYEQsAQIOg&biw=1680&bih=977

Like I said, I can't get beyond google results from here, but it looks like there's some interface that leaves the recoil spring in the stock and folds it back? Not sure exactly how it's engineered, but I can check when I get home if you can't find it from that.
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I know someone used to market an AR-15 "pistol" before 1994. There was about a 3 inch long tube behind the upper receiver. Same concept I suppose.
 
lobosrul5 said:
If somehow "Terry stops" and "civil forfeiture" have survived constitutionality checks then I really fail to see how confiscating someones firearms won't after they brag on the internet how many people they want to murder, or are declared legally insane (as two examples).

ETA: actually the civil forfeiture laws means there is precedent that "property" has no rights. Therefore property, including guns, can be taken based on mere suspicion. Its a pretty frickin dangerous precedent really.
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Yeah, I reject appeals to civil forfeiture as an example of good rights protection.
 
Hellbound said:
Okay, so ~17% of the military budget :D

Still, it's going to need to be something along that route to make any immediate difference, anything else is going to take a lot of time. I still say it's a better solution that the proposed bans.

Even without bulletproofing and such, just installing electronic locks and giving staff radios would be a help, and do more, more immediately, than weapon bans (IMO). And doesn't necessarily have to be bulletproof, for that matter; the main purpose would be to keep them in one spot. The wire-mesh glass, for example, and stout doors (metal or solid hardwood) would serve the purpose, and do more to slow down a shooter than would smaller mags or using a pistol instead of a rifle.
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An embargo on reporting the name of the killer and the details of the incident would probably have a quicker effect. And would be much cheaper to implement.
 
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