The Trump Presidency (Act V - The One Where Everybody Dies)

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Minoosh said:
I think it depends on the race.

80 percent of 44 percent of 58 percent. ... Dems deserve to lose if they can't beat that.

I'm pretty sure that there's a difference between "I oppose abortion" vs. "I want to force women to bear babies who have no brains" AND "I want to keep babies with no brains alive as long as humanly possible, no matter what it costs." But I could be wrong!
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I've heard the argument that if abortion had been legal there would be no Beethoven. If we could abort babies with no brains, where would we find a president?
 
bruto said:
I've heard the argument that if abortion had been legal there would be no Beethoven.
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And no Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson etc. ...

bruto said:
If we could abort babies with no brains, where would we find a president?
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:D

Interesting bit I found on the Web just now:

Finally, with the declining birth rate among whites in the late 1800s, the U.S. government and the eugenics movement warned against the danger of "race suicide'' and urged white, native-born women to reproduce.
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From feminist.com. I wasn't looking specifically for that, just Googling a bit on the history of abortion.
 
phiwum said:
Very common view, anecdotally speaking. My family tends towards Pentecostalism and shares that view. Trump is like Saul. He'll be changed by God to be a good man.
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No, God regretted that he made Saul king. So I too hope Trump is like Saul.
1 Samuel 15:10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night ... 26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!” ... 34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.​
 
phiwum said:
I used to have a negative opinion about Steele, for reasons I honestly can't recall. These days I like him as an example of a principled conservative. His party is changing in ways that are not traditionally conservative. Many politicians are going with the flow, accepting Trump just because he is in power. Steele is not.
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I'm surprised Steele hasn't switched to an independent party yet. He defended the GOP on CNN at first and then he started moving more and more toward sanity. I will listen to him where most of the GOP legislators and leaders are dishonest ideologues. In fact, I'm not even sure they have an ideology anymore. It's more like win at any cost.
 
Minoosh said:
And no Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson etc. ...

:D
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I think of that whenever I drive by this sign...

12777588073_2575bdc22a_z.jpg
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I think of that whenever I drive by this sign...

[qimg]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/12777588073_2575bdc22a_z.jpg[/qimg]
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This is a perfect example of illogical thinking. If God is all-knowing and has "a plan" for everyone, how could he make the mistake of sending these people into the bodies of women he knew would choose to abort them? They want it both ways.
 
Stacyhs said:
This is a perfect example of illogical thinking. If God is all-knowing and has "a plan" for everyone, how could he make the mistake of sending these people into the bodies of women he knew would choose to abort them? ...
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No worries when you have the benefit of confirmation bias. :p

And that bias includes the belief that people who don't do as [fill in the believer or religion, whatever] are sinners going to hell.
 
Stacyhs said:
This is a perfect example of illogical thinking. If God is all-knowing and has "a plan" for everyone, how could he make the mistake of sending these people into the bodies of women he knew would choose to abort them? They want it both ways.
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This is the same character who had himself born as his own son so he could die a painful death which was necessary so he could forgive people for a grudge he was carrying against them based on their ancestors' eating a piece of fruit he knew they'd eat before he even told them not to.

What amazes me is that people who believe in this character say he's necessary to make sense of the universe.
 
blutoski said:
Why would anybody think that? Was he an ugly baby, too?
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It's a stupid argument, but some have suggested that Beethoven's mother was in a situation where she might have been advised to get an abortion, and thus might have done so, and thus etc. etc., based partly on misinformation and partly on the practice of retroactive history that presumes the circumstances in 18th century Germany resemble those today, and using in reverse the very argument the anti-abortionists use freely to suggest that it's wanton murder to consider the outcome of a pregnancy at all, as, for example, to abort a fetus that will be born without a brain or will be unable to live.
 
Craig B said:
No, God regretted that he made Saul king. So I too hope Trump is like Saul.
1 Samuel 15:10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night ... 26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!” ... 34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.​
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Is it possible the "Saul" referenced is Saul of the New Testament who became Paul after being stricken with blindness by a vision of Jesus?
If so I want to see Trump stricken in some fashion that will call for his removal from office, and maybe some repentance.
 
Craig B said:
No, God regretted that he made Saul king. So I too hope Trump is like Saul.
1 Samuel 15:10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night ... 26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!” ... 34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.​
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Sorry, I might have gotten names wrong. I meant the guy who became Paul the apostle. Wasn't his name Saul?

Surely, Christianity reveres his conversion, yes?
 
Minoosh said:
I think it depends on the race.

80 percent of 44 percent of 58 percent. ... Dems deserve to lose if they can't beat that.
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If they keep their messaging, policies and candidates as boring as they currently are, they're looking like they're heading for a loss.

Minoosh said:
I'm pretty sure that there's a difference between "I oppose abortion" vs. "I want to force women to bear babies who have no brains" AND "I want to keep babies with no brains alive as long as humanly possible, no matter what it costs." But I could be wrong!
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I'm not sure where this specific subject comes from (especially as, IIRC, the Democratic Party is considering stepping back from its "Pro Choice" stance and encourage anti-abortion candidates to stand on the Democratic Party ticket) but two of those statements are a good example of why the Democratic Party is failing in its messaging and policy.

The GOP understands that there are a lot (the majority ?) of people out there who like simple, binary, positions - "Pro-life" vs "Pro Baby Killer". Bringing up examples where someone who is Pro-life/Anti-choice (depending on viewpoint) might want to reconsider their hard-line position (such as non-viable foetuses or pregnancies resulting from rape or incest) makes them feel uncomfortable. Instead of looking to themselves, they get angry with the person who is making them feel uncomfortable. The GOP knows this and this is why policy (even if it is actually somewhat nuanced) is presented as a simple, binary choice Pro-life vs. Pro-Baby Killer; Pro-business vs. Pro-tax; Pro-America vs Pro-Illegal Immigrant.
 
Craig B said:
No, God regretted that he made Saul king. So I too hope Trump is like Saul.
1 Samuel 15:10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night ... 26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!” ... 34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.​
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How could god regret anything? Doesn't that imply he made a mistake, and thus is not perfect.
 
bruto said:
I've heard the argument that if abortion had been legal there would be no Beethoven.
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Even if that was true, so what? Are they really saying that the pleasure they get from Beethoven's music is worth the misery of millions of women, millions of deprived children, and all the resulting harm? I mean I do actually listen to his music (Radio 3 are playing some right now) but I wouldn't be that selfish about it.
 
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