Proof of Immortality, VII

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- I think that I really do have to give up to Jay -- I simply can't keep up with him.
Everyone else is. Why can you not?

- In addition, I will plan on ignoring everyone who tends only to insult me and my ideas. If you think that you might be in that group, but would like me to not ignore you, send me a PM saying that you will try to quit being insulting.
You have been doing so for years. How is this different?

- I've been talking to you guys for almost 6 years now. I spend all the time I can justify doing just that.
Except that you haven't

Most of you claim that I'm being rude when I don't respond to your questions and objections, but I only have 2 or 3 hours a day that I can justify,
Baloney. In 2-3 hours, you could respond to everyone on this thread easily.

I've had over a hundred opponents targeting me with their objections and insults, often there are numerous objections and/or insults per post, and I find it hard to believe that you guys really believe that I'm being rude...
There are not "over a hundred" participants in this thread. There have never been. That would be a terminological inexactitude. And you have behaved grotesquely rudely for the duration of this thread. And in your shroud thread. And in your one on one debate thread with LL.

- Maybe 30,000 responses and a million views during that time?
And?

- Anyway, I'm going back to responding to those of you who can keep your claims and insults down to a minimum per post.
No, you will continue to only respond to posts which you think you have a snowballs hope in hell of responding to. Exactly the way you have ignored the fatal flaws.

- I'll try to dredge up all the different issues and sub-issues, and provide my best answers.
Yeah, sure. Always telling us what you are going to do, but never actually doing it.

- I tried to get back into that statistics site I was in before, but must have done something wrong. I'll try again. I'd like to present them with my latest syllogism and see specifically where they disagree.
They will and you know it. Nobody buys the befuddled old man routine.
 
- I think that I really do have to give up to Jay -- I simply can't keep up with him.

Hogwash. Six months ago I gave you an assignment I told you would take an hour to complete. If you're taking more than an hour to do it, you're not following my instructions. Now you are trying to tell me you don't have as little as a hour to set aside to actually participate in the debate in a way that's not self-aggrandizing. I haven't set you a task that would be inappropriate for the first day of an undergraduate philosophy class. I haven't set you a task you cannot do.

You simply don't want to do it. I think you won't do it because it denies you the tool you've used most effectively -- drawing out losing debates into shoals of endless repetition and pointless detail in order to avoid having to admit the defeat that's staring you in the face.. When it comes to simply stating and defending your case against a well-prepared opponent, you can't do it. In a nutshell, you suck at the intellectual process.

Look at you even now, conceding the debate but trying to blame your critics as usual. You're not wrong, according to you, but your critics are just too much for you to handle and so you're going to keep ignoring them and preach from your pulpit, hoping to gain some converts to the Cult of Jabba.

In addition, I will plan on ignoring everyone who tends only to insult me and my ideas.

Oh, stop being such a prima donna, Jabba. You are patently obnoxious, rude, and pompous, and you have no business attempting to comment on or correct the behavior of others. You have made it abundantly clear that you are seeking only sycophants and the illusion of victory, so quit blaming others for your unwillingness to face the real world. Rest assured I'll be here every day reminding you of the failure you've just admitted.

Anyway, I'm going back to responding to those of you who can keep your claims and insults down to a minimum per post.

No, Jabba, we tried this before. You were given the opportunity to debate in a limited forum against a single well-behaved opponent, and you proved you could not do it. You proved that your bad behavior has nothing to do with how others behave toward you. You're not even close to the saint you seem to think you are. Quit trying to regulate and limit the debate to things you think you can handle, and to rebuttals coated with sugar to make them easier for you to swallow.

You have been given twelve dispassionately stated refutations, each of which is fatal to your argument. There's no rancor or insult to them, just your stated inability to answer them. Now you're trying to frantically save face and suggest that you have been so unjustly put upon by hordes of mean-spirited skeptics. To all those whom you have insulted and ignored, that's quite a laugh.

I'll try to dredge up all the different issues and sub-issues...

In other words, back to business as usual. Which means you concede I've proven what I set out to prove. You can't provide a twelve-sentence summary of how you plan to deal with your critics at the most fundamental level, so you're back to finding some niggling detail you can wallow around in.forever. You have no actual argument; you have only this now-tedious performance art that fools no one and accomplishes nothing except feeding your ego.

...and provide my best answers.

You've already done that. Your best answers aren't good enough, and you admit you have been shown this in a way you cannot fix. Explain why the debate is not simply over at this point.

You lose and I win, Jabba. Man up and admit what the facts have already borne out. Have the grace to resign the debate with a semblance of dignity left, rather than as the laughingstock you presently are.
 
- I think that I really do have to give up to Jay -- I simply can't keep up with him.

Yes, you could, if you were interested in doing so. If you'd taken all the time that you've devoted to content-free waffling and re-stating your original premises in slightly different terms and spent it instead on responding to Jay's list, like he and everyone else has been asking you to do, you could have made some progress by now. The problem is not that you don't have time to respond, it's that you're determined to remain non-responsive.

- In addition, I will plan on ignoring everyone who tends only to insult me and my ideas. If you think that you might be in that group, but would like me to not ignore you, send me a PM saying that you will try to quit being insulting.

These two sentences do not agree with each other. Several people make repeated valid criticisms of your "proof", then get irritable when your response to these points is to repeat your initial claim rather than addressing the criticism. This is not only insulting you and your ideas.

- I tried to get back into that statistics site I was in before, but must have done something wrong. I'll try again. I'd like to present them with my latest syllogism and see specifically where they disagree.

That could at least be entertaining, if any of them even bother to respond after the last fiasco.

Dave
 
Claims and insults are two different things, aren't they? Jabba, aren't they? Hello?

Oh well. Since I'm too old and befuddled to PM, let me just say right here in class that I'll try (earnestly! sincerely!) not to insult Jabba in any future post.

I'll insult other people instead. Volunteers?
 
Oh well. Since I'm too old and befuddled to PM...

As if it mattered. This is just one of Jabba's infamously ham-fisted plays for sympathy. Everyone who wants to debate Jabba here now has to personally and individually pledge to Jabba that they won't upset him too much. One of the great tricks he pulls when he's cornered (which, as you can see, is quite often) is to retreat back to "teacher" mode and try to set ground rules for the debate -- as if the rules that apply to everyone are now suddenly the reason Jabba can't make any headway. It's all part and parcel of his overall plan to ask everyone to agree with him before the debate even starts, in essence to define himself as the winner simply by his say-so and ask everyone else to agree.
 
And I feel the need to put on the record again that the PTB here, operating way outside reasonable accommodations, gave Jabba his stupid "One on one highly stylized debate thread under his rules with an anointed single 'spokesman' for the other side" that he kept promising everybody he would finally cream the big mean skeptics in once he was allowed to debate "his way."

... and he was immediately argued into the exact same corner, resorted back to begging for agreement from passerbys, was pretty much ran out of his own special thread for not following the deck-stacking rules he held his breath until he was given, and ran back to the normal thread with his tail between his legs and with a full on fringe reset.

Nobody here is going to be lining up to let Jabba slap our wrists.
 
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And I feel the need to put on the record again that the PTB here, operating way outside reasonable accommodations, gave Jabba his stupid "One on one highly stylized debate thread under his rules with an anointed single 'spokesman' for the other side" that he kept promising everybody he would finally cream the big mean skeptics in once he was allowed to debate "his way."

... and he was immediately argued into the exact same corner, resorted back to begging for agreement from passerbys, was pretty much ran out of his own special thread for not following the deck-stacking rules he held his breath until he was given, and ran back to the normal thread with his tail between his legs and with a full on fringe reset.

Nobody here is going to be lining up to let Jabba slap our wrists.
Amusingly, immediately after setting out the ground rules for "effective debate" he violated those very rules.

Never apologised for it either.

Loss Leader was far more patient with that nonsense than I could possibly have been.
 
Claims and insults are two different things, aren't they? Jabba, aren't they? Hello?

Oh well. Since I'm too old and befuddled to PM, let me just say right here in class that I'll try (earnestly! sincerely!) not to insult Jabba in any future post.

I'll insult other people instead. Volunteers?
Sackett,
- I didn't mean that claims and insults are the same thing.
- Please try to avoid sarcasm as well as insults.
 
Someone who dislikes sarcasm should probably not spend five years making the same silly and easily debunked claims over and over and over again.
 
I didn't mean that claims and insults are the same thing.

Yes you do Jabba. We're not stupid. That's exactly what you mean. You want this mythical "neutral audience" of people that don't exist to think that questioning your claims is insulting you.

I was actually wondering how long it would take you to try the 'I'm right because because the other side is being too mean.' argument. Surprised it took this long.

You have been openly and amazingly rude to everyone in this thread. At worst your opponents are just frustrated with your nonsense, stalling, lying, and thick headedness.

Please try to avoid sarcasm as well as insults.

No. Jabba this thread isn't your own little personal fiefdom where you control the peasantry. Sarcasm is the lightest response you deserve. You should be eternally grateful that the MA means all we can do is be sarcastic at you. You deserve far worse.

I get that your main childish stalling tactic is this whole "I'll beat you big mean skeptics as soon as you agree to face me on my terms" thing but nobody believes it. It's just a continued lists of rationalizations. Yet another excuse why Jabba, the self proclaimed grand master of effective debate who has mathematically proven immortality can't defeat a bunch of random nobodies on the internet.

Every damn fool thing with you is always "going to happen" it never happens. You'll "get around" to addressing the encyclopedia of criticism lobbied against your childish immortality fantasy, you'll "get around to" actually making arguments instead of just stating claims, you'll "get around to" addressing everybody and not just cherry picked out of context quote mines.

And we already tried to give you your own special thread that operated under your rules and it was still like arguing with a brick wall's armpit.

You can't go somewhere and demand a bunch of sycophants tell you how wonderfully correct you are about everything.
 
Sackett,
- I didn't mean that claims and insults are the same thing.
Of course you do. You're so wedded to your idea that you have become it. To you, any attack on your argument is a direct attack on you. Get over it.

- Please try to avoid sarcasm as well as insults.
You get the responses you've earned. Change your behavior and get different responses. Which reminds me:

I haven't yet gotten a PM from you yet stating that you will discontinue using your JILpu (Jabba Immortal Lie per usual). Please attend to that soonest.
 
Sackett,
- I didn't mean that claims and insults are the same thing.
- Please try to avoid sarcasm as well as insults.

How about your insults to scientists and your critics?

You don't get to dictate how the conversation is held, remember? You tried that once and you got trounced.
 
Sackett,
- I didn't mean that claims and insults are the same thing.
- Please try to avoid sarcasm as well as insults.

No sarcasm, and no insults: you have admitted that you cannot answer JayUtah’s fatal flaws. You have admitted that you know you need to add an extra entity to your body to achieve your goal, and you have admitted that this cannot be more likely than your body alone. So why are you still pretending that you are right?
 
I didn't mean that claims and insults are the same thing.

Yes, you do -- at least historically. Remember when you complained so loudly about how I was insulting you and was mean to you? Remember how I asked you to put your money where your mouth is and provide examples? For several days you avoided that request. When you finally gave in to widespread demands for evidence, you came up with a list of my posts you alleged were insulting. Do you remember the hales of laughter that followed as it became apparent you considered "insulting" posts that merely challenged your claims? Do you really want to make that sort of fool out of yourself again?

You have not been insulted. In fact, you have not been treated amiss in any way. On the contrary, you have been given far more patience than you deserve. Yes, your ideas have been subjected to scrutiny at every level, as befits claims of the magnitude you're making. Yes, you have been shown your errors, which are numerous and elementary. You have proven time and again that you simply cannot stomach even the slightest criticism. You have proven that you cannot conceive of the possibility you are wrong. These are your problems, so you need to stop blaming everyone else for your bad behavior.

Please try to avoid sarcasm as well as insults.

Don't tell sackett how to post. I'd much rather watch him eviscerate a bad argument in three sentences with his trademark sarcasm than watch you behave constantly like a petulant child. Sackett is honest in the way he posts. You aren't, and you have no room to criticize.

In fact, don't tell me or anyone else how to post. You aren't in charge here, as much as you clearly want to be and evidently think you are. You've already proven that you don't change when we let you make the rules, so stop trying to pretend you're some grand master of the debate talking down to benighted pupils. You have no business trying to lay ground rules for others, especially when you admit you can't or won't address the actual refutations that are part of the debate.

Want to dig yourself out of the mire? Answer the list of fatal flaws in the manner I instructed. It will take you no more than an hour, and it will prove you actually have a plan for this debate that rises above trying to lord an illusion of superiority over your critics. Go on, I dare you. Actually answer the questions, or have the honesty to admit you failed to prove your case.
 
Jay,
- I'm referring to what religious people call a "soul" -- but, what non-religious people call a "self." The two groups just disagree about its nature.

Yes, Jabba. This has been clear to practically everybody for five years.

The problem, as we have been telling you for about the same five years, is that you are trying to assess the materialistic model by the premises of the religious model. Do you not understand why this is not possible?

Hans
 
Someone who dislikes sarcasm should probably not spend five years making the same silly and easily debunked claims over and over and over again.
Pixel,
- Take one of my claims that you think is silly or easily debunked and tell me why you think that. You could just refer me back to a previous post.
 
Pixel,
- Take one of my claims that you think is silly or easily debunked and tell me why you think that. You could just refer me back to a previous post.

What?

What possible reason does anyone have for doing that at this point? You've ignored every single argument for 5 years now. Why should now be different?

What's with this "I might deem to address your arguments if you repeate them to me again" nonsense? Get off your damn high horse.

Nobody is playing your game Jabba because we know what you'll do. You WILL NOT actually address anything. We all know it.

You want one silly and easily debunked claim to address Jabba? Address this one.

Why should anyone in this thread believe a single word you say?

"Okay if you'll play my game I'll address your points and this time I really mean it unlike those last 50 times" is just another lie.
 
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No sarcasm, and no insults: you have admitted that you cannot answer JayUtah’s fatal flaws. You have admitted that you know you need to add an extra entity to your body to achieve your goal, and you have admitted that this cannot be more likely than your body alone. So why are you still pretending that you are right?
- Perhaps an analogy would work: I'm a sprinter, Jay's a marathon man -- and, Jay challenges me to a Marathon while ignoring my challenge to him for a sprint.
- I can answer his fatal flaws, but only one at a time, cause Jay will complain about my answer -- and then, I'll need to answer his new complaint; etc.
 
Pixel,
- Take one of my claims that you think is silly or easily debunked and tell me why you think that. You could just refer me back to a previous post.

No, how about you address the fatal flaws in your argument? Start by justifying your assumption that potential selves exist.

I'm a sprinter, Jay's a marathon man

Sprinters tend to get to the finish line sooner than five years after the start.

I can answer his fatal flaws, but only one at a time, cause Jay will complain about my answer -- and then, I'll need to answer his new complaint; etc.

Nonsense. This doesn't prevent you from addressing all of them in one post.
 
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Pixel,
- Take one of my claims that you think is silly or easily debunked and tell me why you think that. You could just refer me back to a previous post.
I refer you to JayUtah's post listing all your claims and the fatal flaw(s) in each.
 
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