Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

[HSienzant]

Definitely some EOP going on there.

Asked and answered previously. You ignored all the responses.

Here's just one example:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11528666&postcount=1815

Particularly these points, which you ignored:
I see no possible wound location anywhere on the back of the head except for the one you keep calling the "cowlick red spot". You remember, the one which is:

(a) in focus
(b) in the relative center of the photo
(c) has the hair parted around it to apparently show it better
(d) has a ruler next to it

That one, the one that couldn't possibly be a wound entry location (according to you).

and adding point (e)
(e) is relatively elliptical, like the autopsy report described.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

There are a lot of great theories out there

No, there's only one supported by the evidence.

Oswald's paper bag. Oswald's rifle. Oswald's ammo. Oswald's finger on the trigger.

What evidence do you have for your favorite?

Or - no surprise - you can choose to punt again.

...but one thing for sure is the EOP wound. Any investigation must explain the EOP wound.

You keep talking about "the EOP wound". There was NO wound in the EOP (external occipital protuberance).

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

You seem to have misunderstood again.

No, he didn't. He answers a different question when he can't answer the question asked. It's his way of moving the conversation along and pretending there's actually some substance to his responses.

There isn't.

Hank

 

[Axxman300]

Definitely some EOP going on there.

There is only one bullet wound to JFK's skull. It was made by a 6.5x52mm round fired bu Oswald from the 6th floor of the TSBD.

All of the evidence has proved this to be true.

Next...

 

[MicahJava]

Asked and answered previously. You ignored all the responses.

Here's just one example:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11528666&postcount=1815

Hank, Dr. Boswell told the HSCA and the ARRB that the red spot was a small laceration in the scalp related to the large head wound. So while Dr. Humes, Dr. Finck and John Stringer suggested that the red spot was just a drop of blood, there is no reason why we shouldn't think the red spot could be a small wound of some signifigance. It's just not THE small wound near the external occipital protuberance. Autopsy photographs showing views such as the small head wound and Kennedy's right lung have inexplicably gone missing. So you are working from the context of an incomplete set of photographs.

Particularly these points, which you ignored:
I see no possible wound location anywhere on the back of the head except for the one you keep calling the "cowlick red spot". You remember, the one which is:

(a) in focus

Source? Still, Not evidence of an entry wound.

(b) in the relative center of the photo

So?

(c) has the hair parted around it to apparently show it better

Specifically denied by the autopsy pathologists who examined the photographs. Also, the significance of "parted hair" is in question because other photographs show Kennedy's hair parted in a different way. And even if the hair was parted to expose some kind of small wound on the top of the head, still not evidence that it's THE wound.

(d) has a ruler next to it

Specifically denied by the autopsy pathologists who examined the photographs. But even if that were true, so what? Still not evidence that the red spot is THE wound.

(e) is relatively elliptical, like the autopsy report described.

Hank

Wrong. The wound described in the autopsy report is 15 x 6mm, while the red spot is only about 12 mm and mostly pretty circular. What is the significance of "elliptical"? If it were perfectly round, the cowlickers would never get over it.

Notes:

1. I have not seen any photographic evidence that the red spot is situated 4-5 inches above the EOP like the alleged defect on the X-rays. Looking at stereoscopic morphing gifs of the autopsy photographs, the red spot appears to be about 2 inches above the EOP.

2. While you may doubt that the EOP wound could simply be hiding under a bit of hair on the back-of-head photographs, keep in mind that Kennedy's hair also appears to be obscuring the hole in the right temple described by Tom Robinson.

3. The red spot could be an exit for a fragment (which may very well be possible with a shot from behind, a fragment that flew backwards), in which case the autopsy pathologists would have a motive for not addressing it truthfully.

 

[RoboTimbo]

<snip scampering away from answering>

Which theory that you subscribe to is based on a consilience of evidence?

You don't need to continue to run away from answering, do you? Like every other CTist.

 

[MicahJava]

I don't think there's any problem with determining what didn't happen rather than what did. This is a difficult crime case. The damage to Kennedy's head was not caused by single shot from the Depository entering 4-5 inches above the EOP and exiting the top of the head. The lower wound right next to the EOP must be accounted for.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I don't think there's any problem with determining what didn't happen rather than what did. This is a difficult crime case. The damage to Kennedy's head was not caused by single shot from the Depository entering 4-5 inches above the EOP and exiting the top of the head. The lower wound right next to the EOP must be accounted for.

Where did other shots come from?

 

[MicahJava]

You seem to have misunderstood again. I was asking specifically what you think occurred. I doubt that you subscribe to all the "great theories".I expect there is one that best represents your views. Do you have your own theory or is there a specific theory from someone else that accurately reflects you thoughts? All I am asking for is a brief summary, in your own words, of what you think happened that day. Without, of course, any comments on what you do not think happened that day.
Thanks again.

The cavity in the lower neck apparent on the X-rays is certainly a good contender for strong evidence that a missile entered near the EOP, deflected downwards and exited the throat.

 

[MicahJava]

Where did other shots come from?

Since the EOP wound is almost certainly an entrance for a missile, that shot would have to come from behind, and probably above.

Just look at the situation with MLK. While one single bullet did the trick in that case, there were almost certainly at least two sniper positions, one in the bushes and one in the fire department building. So I do not reject the typical conspiracy theorist notion that there would be other snipers hidden in buildings for the purpose of making sure Kennedy died.

 

[Axxman300]

I don't think there's any problem with determining what didn't happen rather than what did.

Actually it's a huge problem. All that matters is what happened.

This is a difficult crime case.

Hardly. The only reason it's not open and shut is Oswald was shot before he confessed. We have his rifle, his bullets, fired from his place of work on the floor he worked on,DPD Officer Tippet killed by Oswald, attempts to kill second DPD Officer in the theater.

This is what happened.

The damage to Kennedy's head was not caused by single shot from the Depository entering 4-5 inches above the EOP and exiting the top of the head.

Yes it absolutely was. The bullet was recovered. The damage to the head is exclusive to the 6.5x52mm round.

This is a difficult crime case. The damage to Kennedy's head was not caused by single shot from the Depository entering 4-5 inches above the EOP and exiting the top of the head. The lower wound right next to the EOP must be accounted for.

The lower wound right next to the EOP must be accounted for.

There is no wound lower to the right. You are misinterpreting a low-resolution photograph the content of which you are not qualified to evaluate. As we've pointed out before, you have not seen all of the photographs from the autopsy, and therefore do not know what they do or do not show.

The only opinion that matters belongs to the men who did the autopsy, and they found only one entrance wound to the back of the head.

 

[HSienzant]

I don't think there's any problem with determining what didn't happen rather than what did. This is a difficult crime case.

No, it's not. The weapon was recovered within 40 minutes of the assassination. A paper sack used to transport the weapon was recovered from right next to the window where the shooter was seen, as were three shells traceable to his weapon. The killer was in custody within 90 minutes of the assassination. A nearly whole bullet was discovered at Parkland Hospital that afternoon. And two large fragments were found in the limo that evening. The three shells, the two bullet fragments, and the nearly whole bullet were all determined to have been fired from his weapon to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world. His prints were discovered on the weapon, and photographs of him with the weapon were recovered from the Paine's garage (where he stored many of his belongings) within 24 hours.

To this day, 54 years later, there is no evidence pointing to anyone else.
Once more: To this day, there is no evidence pointing to anyone else.

No other shooter was seen, no other weapon was found, no other suspect emerged, no bullets, no shells, no bullet fragments traceable to another weapon. NOTHING.

The damage to Kennedy's head was not caused by single shot from the Depository entering 4-5 inches above the EOP and exiting the top of the head.

And this is where you lose all credibility. There was only one shot to the head, according to the autopsy report you yourself like to cite. Not two bullet wounds to the head. And the evidence indicates exactly where it was.

The lower wound right next to the EOP must be accounted for.

It is. The autopsy report places it above the EOP, not 'right next to the EOP'.

The wound in the autopsy photos is above the EOP.

Hank

 

[Axxman300]

The cavity in the lower neck apparent on the X-rays is certainly a good contender for strong evidence that a missile entered near the EOP, deflected downwards and exited the throat.

Nope.

X-ray does not show this at all.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Since the EOP wound is almost certainly an entrance for a missile, that shot would have to come from behind, and probably above.

So the shot that entered above the EOP as noted in the autopsy which you've been citing is accounted for. Where does your confusion come from? Were you thinking that there were shots besides those that Oswald fired?

 

[Axxman300]

Since the EOP wound is almost certainly an entrance for a missile, that shot would have to come from behind, and probably above.

Just look at the situation with MLK. While one single bullet did the trick in that case, there were almost certainly at least two sniper positions, one in the bushes and one in the fire department building.

Stick to this case.

All that matters is what happened in Dealey Plaza. Another place and another time is blowing smoke.

 

[MicahJava]

The autopsy (officially) concluded one head shot because the small wound in the skull had internal beveling and the large wound in the skull had external beveling. I am not denying this. The trajectories, how the (official) brain was damaged, how the (official) X-rays show fragment dispersal or fracture patterns are a totally different issue. Kennedy's brain was alledgedly not sectioned. Would anybody care to explain why the brain is sectioned in cases of gunshot wound to the head?

 

[HSienzant]

Since the EOP wound is almost certainly an entrance for a missile, that shot would have to come from behind, and probably above.

And what weapons were recovered behind and above the President? I know of only one... the one belonging to Lee Harvey Oswald.

Do enlighten us about the other weapons found, and who they belonged to.

Just look at the situation with MLK. While one single bullet did the trick in that case, there were almost certainly at least two sniper positions, one in the bushes and one in the fire department building.

Hilarious!

You want to get hammered on two assassinations simultaneously, apparently.

James Earl Ray, the confessed assassin, was neither in the bushes nor a fire department. He shot from the bathroom window of a rooming house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King_Jr.#Assassination

Let's pretend not to notice you're apparently desperate to change the subject (a logical fallacy of a red herring).

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

The cavity in the lower neck apparent on the X-rays is certainly a good contender for strong evidence that a missile entered near the EOP, deflected downwards and exited the throat.

And they are off and running again... Just another fringe reset by you.

We've covered all this. In detail. About a year ago. A reminder: You are now contradicting the very autopsy report and the very autopsy doctors you just cited a few posts above.

Make up your mind. Either the autopsy doctors got it right, or they got it wrong. But you don't get to cite their conclusions when it suits you, and then turn around and disregard their conclusions when it suits you as well.

Now you're just cherry-picking the parts you like.

And your argument doesn't even make sense. You're arguing for a bullet exiting JFK's throat in the Z190-Z224 range, as we've previously established.

That means you think JFK was struck in the brain by a bullet that went through his head, exited the base of the skull (without leaving any discernable damage!) and then exited his throat, and yet JFK still was able to sit upright for at least five seconds, bring his arms up and out, point to his throat wound, and do all this before a second shot to his head blew the top of his skull off.

That theory is bizarre beyond belief, because it now has you arguing that the autopsy doctors missed a second bullet entry wound in the head, a second bullet exit through the base of the skull (that somehow caused NO damage), missed a bullet in the body (that entered the back and didn't exit the throat according to you), and that none of the roughly 500 witnesses in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination saw the other shooter(s) responsible for these other shots. Or heard more than the three fired from Oswald's rifle. So the witnesses were deaf AND blind when it suits your purposes, and the autopsy doctors got everything wrong except the location of the wound on the back of the head.

Good luck recovering from that bizarre theory.

And that's why conspiracy theorists generally don't offer anything but criticism of the established scenario. Because the moment they start getting definitive is the moment their theory unravels completely.

Hank

 

[RoboTimbo]

The autopsy (officially) concluded one head shot because the small wound in the skull had internal beveling and the large wound in the skull had external beveling. I am not denying this. The trajectories, how the (official) brain was damaged, how the (official) X-rays show fragment dispersal or fracture patterns are a totally different issue.

And it came from the direction of Oswald's sniper nest, as you say. Ok.

Kennedy's brain was alledgedly not sectioned. Would anybody care to explain why the brain is sectioned in cases of gunshot wound to the head?

Yes, you may enlighten us.

 

[MicahJava]

And they are off and running again... Just another fringe reset by you.

We've covered all this. In detail. About a year ago. A reminder: You are now contradicting the very autopsy report and the very autopsy doctors you just cited a few posts above.

Make up your mind. Either the autopsy doctors got it right, or they got it wrong. But you don't get to cite their conclusions when it suits you, and then turn around and disregard their conclusions when it suits you as well.

Now you're just cherry-picking the parts you like.

Hank

Your only argument was that the air cavity on the X-ray COULD be a bullet track from the back to the throat. It's actually very apparent that the dark cavity goes up into the middle-neck area. Not the upper back.