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Cont: The Trump Presidency Part IV

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Beelzebuddy said:
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-President Lyndon B. Johnson
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Yep. Post 1808 when the importation of slaves ended, the demand for labour was partly satisfied with European immigration of indentured servants. Very few indentured servants received the land they were promised at the end of their commitment. Most became sharecroppers.

Plantation owners saw a danger brewing: unsatisfied labourers could organize.

Solution: pitch them against one another, and poor whites will direct their hostility to black slaves instead of toward the plantation owners who concentrate wealth and power.
 
Giordano said:
Come on Bob: my grandparents weren't digging potatoes for a hobby . The areas in Eastern Europe from which they fled were dirt poor and and undeveloped. They came to the USA for economic opportunity, as did (and do) the bulk of immigrants to the USA. Sure they also suffered religious oppression (I don't think they had the spare time to even think of politics) but they primarily wanted better food and housing for themselves and they wanted their children to not have to dig potatoes like they did. My grandparents were exactly the kind of people that Trump is inveighing against today, except they spoke Yiddish instead of Spanish or Arabic or Swahili or Yoruba.
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I thought that is what I said.
 
baron said:
It's all part of the same game. You can't tell the president of a country they're not welcome on your soil without repurcussions, and with Trump you can imagine those repercussions could be significant. Trump is an egotist who functions at the level of an infant, so if he takes offence at any perceived slight it could mean the UK misses out on lucrative trade deals.

As for Khan, here's what I would do in his position. Instead of whinging and scoring Twitter points I'd meet with Trump when he came over, treat him respectfully, then raise my concerns about his personal behaviour face to face, in private, like a man, like a real politician, not a whiny little populist bitch.
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And you think Trump would take any notice of a left wing Brown person form a foreign country?

treat him like he treats others tell him to go back to his own ******** country. London doesn't want or need him.
 
As someone said In a week Trump will do/say something that'll make today's "********" comment seem quant. Does anyone remember "Mexicans are rapists," "bleeding out of her whatever" and "good people on both sides"? Happy 11th day of 2018, everyone!
 
baron said:
It's all part of the same game. You can't tell the president of a country they're not welcome on your soil without repurcussions, and with Trump you can imagine those repercussions could be significant. Trump is an egotist who functions at the level of an infant, so if he takes offence at any perceived slight it could mean the UK misses out on lucrative trade deals.

As for Khan, here's what I would do in his position. Instead of whinging and scoring Twitter points I'd meet with Trump when he came over, treat him respectfully, then raise my concerns about his personal behaviour face to face, in private, like a man, like a real politician, not a whiny little populist bitch.
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Did you stop to think maybe he's concerned with the safety of the residents of London?
 
baron said:
It's not Trump, it's the office of US president.
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No,it's Trump.
Big difference.
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One that eludes Trump.

We can't rescind relations with a country on the basis that its president is a twat ...
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No-one's suggesting that we do so. What is being suggested, with some credibility, is that Trump might change US relations with Britain if he feels personally slighted.

... then become best friends when a new president is elected.
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That would depend on the new President, who may seek to do to Trump's "achievements" what he seems to be driven to do to Obama's.

Some maturity and forward thinking is required.
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Which you won't get from preening popinjays such as Trump and Boris Johnson.

Johnson is quite right and Khan is parochial, whiny little dick.
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Sadiq Khan has substance : Trump and Johnson are the jumped-up parochials.

Trump behaves like a baby, we all know that, but that's no reason for the UK to follow suit.
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Theresa May's response to Trump's insulting and condescending tweet at her was mature, so it's unlikely the UK will.
 
Nessie said:
Two news stories about the POTUS, both terrible and still no demands for his removal.

He is vindictive by targeting only Obama over the embassy and racist with his attitudes to certain countries.

Why is he still the POTUS? Is there no vote of confidence? No British PM would survive either of these stories, let alone both, let alone all the crap Trump has been up to.
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I want Trump out of there worse then you do, but there is no such thing as a vote of confidence in the US. The only way to remove a sitting president is impeachment and conviction, and that is is totally different thing then a vote of confidence.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
You don't believe the Mayor of London has any means by which he can gather data on what people who live in London think? I mean, we know from polling data that Khan is one of the most popular politicians in the country - even (especially?) after he's called out Trump for erroneous and tactless statements about London terrorist attacks - and we know from polling data that a plurality of British people don't think Trump should be allowed to visit the UK. So what his opinions are more popular than Trump's in the UK, and from what data is publicly available we know that what he's saying agrees with what the plurality of people in Britain think.
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You seem very eager for UK foreign and domestic policy to be decided by poll. I gather, therefore, that you'd also advocate substantially reduced immigration, and that you'd support profiling against Muslims and a Muslim immigration ban, and that you're fully behind BREXIT. Maybe I'm wrong, and I should you applaud your view that the will of the people must be respected despite it conflicting with your own attitudes, but something tells me the will of the people only has value if you agree with it.

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Given the ethnic make-up of London (and the disruption it would cause in London) it seems reasonable to assume that a greater number of Londoners than the general population would be opposed to Trump visiting, and given that Khan is the Mayor of London it seems reasonable that he would have access to more data than the general public.
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I'm sick of hearing about London and Londoners and how the entire United Kingdom and the 88% of the population who don't live in London must respect Londoners' imagined right not to be offended.

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
So on what basis do you claim that his opinion is just the same as everybody else's? And even if it is, given that it's in line with that of a plurality of the UK and that part of his job is literally to speak on behalf of Londoners, on what basis are you claiming that he can't speak on behalf of Londoners on this matter?
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Since when did I say he can't speak? I'll leave the fascist repression of free speech to those who advocate violent protest against a democratically elected head of state.

Captain_Swoop said:
And you think Trump would take any notice of a left wing Brown person form a foreign country?

treat him like he treats others tell him to go back to his own ******** country. London doesn't want or need him.
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Yes, that's the best idea, we should all behave like Trump. Problem solved.

NoahFence said:
Did you stop to think maybe he's concerned with the safety of the residents of London?
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I must have missed the news that Trump is coming here to kill the people of London. Oh, you mean the threat of violence from Londoners themselves? Well, I suggest that the best way to ensure the safety of Londoners is to enforce the law in London and arrest those fascists who use violence to get their own way rather than blame the violence on the person against whom it is targeted.
 
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baron said:
It's all part of the same game. You can't tell the president of a country they're not welcome on your soil without repurcussions, and with Trump you can imagine those repercussions could be significant. Trump is an egotist who functions at the level of an infant, so if he takes offence at any perceived slight it could mean the UK misses out on lucrative trade deals.
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:sdl: I do believe you are misunderestimating ;) just how much power Trump has and who actually stands to lose.

baron said:
As for Khan, here's what I would do in his position. Instead of whinging and scoring Twitter points I'd meet with Trump when he came over, treat him respectfully, then raise my concerns about his personal behaviour face to face, in private, like a man, like a real politician, not a whiny little populist bitch.
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:jaw-dropp :id:
:dl:
 
blutoski said:
Yep. Post 1808 when the importation of slaves ended, the demand for labour was partly satisfied with European immigration of indentured servants. Very few indentured servants received the land they were promised at the end of their commitment. Most became sharecroppers.

Plantation owners saw a danger brewing: unsatisfied labourers could organize.

Solution: pitch them against one another, and poor whites will direct their hostility to black slaves instead of toward the plantation owners who concentrate wealth and power.
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And as Adam Serwer wrote in the Atlantic, this is still the case:

Trump’s support among whites decreases the higher you go on the scales of income and education. But the controlling factor seems to be not economic distress but an inclination to see nonwhites as the cause of economic problems. The poorest voters were somewhat less likely to vote for Trump than those a rung or two above them on the economic ladder. The highest-income voters actually supported Trump less than they did Mitt Romney, who in 2012 won 54 percent of voters making more than $100,000—several points more than Trump secured, although he still fared better than Clinton. It was among voters in the middle, those whose economic circumstances were precarious but not bleak, where the benefits of Du Bois’s psychic wage appeared most in danger of being devalued, and where Trump’s message resonated most strongly. They surged toward the Republican column.


Yet when social scientists control for white voters’ racial attitudes—that is, whether those voters hold “racially resentful” views about blacks and immigrants—even the educational divide disappears. In other words, the relevant factor in support for Trump among white voters was not education, or even income, but the ideological frame with which they understood their challenges and misfortunes. It is also why voters of color—who suffered a genuine economic calamity in the decade before Trump’s election—were almost entirely immune to those same appeals.
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so if he takes offence at any perceived slight it could mean the UK misses out on lucrative trade deals.
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What 'lucrative trade deals'? Trump has no intention of offering anyone anywhere a dewal that is anything other than 'lucrative' in his own eyes which means that if he doesn't get what he wants he will cheat and steal just like he has done all his business life.
Anything trump says or offers is worthless, he lies and lies and can't be trusted by anyone.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
What 'lucrative trade deals'? Trump has no intention of offering anyone anywhere a dewal that is anything other than 'lucrative' in his own eyes which means that if he doesn't get what he wants he will cheat and steal just like he has done all his business life.
Anything trump says or offers is worthless, he lies and lies and can't be trusted by anyone.
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Quite so. Trump was not wrong when he claimed "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." I just watched some Trump supporters interviewed in Alabama and they still support him no matter what he says or does or how many times he lies. It's always amazed, but not surprised, me how blind people can be when it comes to things they just don't want to see.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Keith Boykin asks

When did you know Trump was racist?

1. Housing discrimination
2. Central Park 5
3. Birtherism
4. Called Mexicans drug dealers
5. Ban on Muslims
6. Pardoned Joe Arpaio
7. Nazis are “very fine people”
8. Endorsed slave-supporter Roy Moore
9. Called black countries “*********”
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His calling an American judge "a Mexican" who might not give him a fair hearing was part of it for me. I didn't know how much more there was to come.

And I'm pretty generous about not calling people "racist" if their words and behavior can be described as merely bigoted.
 
Minoosh said:
His calling an American judge "a Mexican" who might not give him a fair hearing was part of it for me. I didn't know how much more there was to come.

And I'm pretty generous about not calling people "racist" if their words and behavior can be described as merely bigoted.
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I don't know what the WH has planned to mark MLK day, but I would hope that people associated with MLK's family and the civil rights movement have a plan to humiliate the president on the world stage. His bigoted comments right before MLK's national holiday call for nothing less.
 
baron said:
You seem very eager for UK foreign and domestic policy to be decided by poll. I gather, therefore, that you'd also advocate substantially reduced immigration, and that you'd support profiling against Muslims and a Muslim immigration ban, and that you're fully behind BREXIT. Maybe I'm wrong, and I should you applaud your view that the will of the people must be respected despite it conflicting with your own attitudes, but something tells me the will of the people only has value if you agree with it.



I'm sick of hearing about London and Londoners and how the entire United Kingdom and the 88% of the population who don't live in London must respect Londoners' imagined right not to be offended.



Since when did I say he can't speak? I'll leave the fascist repression of free speech to those who advocate violent protest against a democratically elected head of state.



Yes, that's the best idea, we should all behave like Trump. Problem solved.



I must have missed the news that Trump is coming here to kill the people of London. Oh, you mean the threat of violence from Londoners themselves? Well, I suggest that the best way to ensure the safety of Londoners is to enforce the law in London and arrest those fascists who use violence to get their own way rather than blame the violence on the person against whom it is targeted.
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Do you get a discount when you purchase strawmen in bulk?
 
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