Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I have no doubt that the appropriate forms were available in Amanda's cell in English.
What was she paying Dalla Vedova for? Twiddling his thumbs?
I have no doubt that the appropriate forms were available in Amanda's cell in English.
Exactly.
But it goes a little deeper:
1. Knox REPORTED being mistreated by the police in her Memoriale 1, written in English on Nov. 6, 2007, soon after the interrogations, including that by Mignini, were completed.
2. The police filed the REPORT, Memoriale 1, in her case file. One must assume the prosecutor, Mignini, was aware of this REPORT.
3. The police and prosecutor took NO ACTION TO INVESTIGATE, including no attempt by them to obtain a formal complaint. Under Italian law, it is the responsibility of the prosecutor to assure that persons making "informal" complaints are made aware of any formal requirements and that complaints are investigated and prosecuted when the investigation shows that grounds to prosecute exist.
4. The Italian courts were AWARE of Knox's REPORT, Memoriale 1, which is a complaint under ECHR case-law.
5. In particular, the Gemelli CSC panel was AWARE of Knox's REPORT, but it did not instruct a lower court to order an independent INVESTIGATION by police not involved with the interrogation or the Rome or Perugia police command, which it had authority to do.
6. The Gemelli CSC panel ACKNOWLEDGED that Knox was or became a SUSPECT during the interrogation, and that CPP Article 63 had been VIOLATED by the police. Thus, neither of the two INTERROGATION STATEMENTS signed by Knox could be used against her according to the Gemelli CSC panel judgment.
7. Then, in the same judgment, the Gemelli CSC panel decided that Knox's REPORT, Memoriale 1, was a DEFENSIVE STATEMENT, referencing the matter of the INTERROGATION STATEMENTS. Because it was a document originating solely from the accused, the Gemelli CSC panel ruled it could be used as evidence against Knox. Therefore, the Gemelli CSC panel ruled that Knox's INTERROGATION STATEMENTS could be used as evidence against Knox, but only for the charge of CALUNNIA against Lumumba.
8. Thus, it appears the Gemelli CSC panel predetermined that Knox was to be punished for her REPORT alleging mistreatment by the police by being CONVICTED of CALUNNIA against Lumumba.
9. Therefore, the prejudicial actions of the Gemelli CSC panel would indicate that it was not advisable for Knox to file a FORMAL COMPLAINT against the police, since any such FORMAL COMPLAINT would used to wrongfully accuse Knox of CALUNNIA against the POLICE.
10. Instead, Knox choose to testify about her mistreatment by the police in open court, and to include reference to it in each of her appeals. For this testimony and the appeals, Knox was charged with the crime of continuous aggravated calunnia against the police. The aggravating factors, "continuous" and "aggravated", were added to the charge because: 1) her statements about the police mistreatment were repeated in each appeal, and 2) the prosecutor alleged that her statements against the police were intended to cover up another crime - Knox's alleged calunnia against Lumumba.
11. Examining this sequence of events, the ECHR will have no problem with Knox's choice of remedy and clearly the remedy was exhausted.
Here's another ECHR case which has relevance, because the ECHR explicitly listed factors it used in evaluating the police mistreatment of the victim. Unlike the situation for Knox, in this case, the victim was seriously injured and the ECHR judged a violation of Article 3 amounting to torture.
In the following excerpt, inline references, with one exception, have been omitted for clarity.
POMILYAYKO v. UKRAINE 60426/11 11/02/2016
Ms. Pomilyayko and her colleagues were employees of a company where some equipment had been stolen. She and one or more colleagues were suspects in the theft.
"7. The Kharkiv Ordzhonikidze District Police Department invited the applicant and one of her colleagues for questioning in respect of the theft.
8. On 8 November 2008, at 11.15 a.m., the applicant came to the police station.
9. At about 11.35 a.m. on 8 November 2008 a senior detective officer, T., accompanied the applicant to the fourth floor of the police station. He asked her to wait in the corridor and entered office no. 56. Five minutes later the applicant heard a woman’s scream emanating from that office. T. opened the door and directed an officer passing by to take the applicant to his office. She was made to wait there for about twenty minutes. Then T. took her to office no. 56. He pushed her inside, twisted her arms behind her back and handcuffed her, even though she had offered no resistance.
10. T. and his colleague, S., who was also in the office, intimidated the applicant with a view to making her confess to the investigated theft. They told her that her colleague, Ms L., had already started to “crack”. The applicant noticed Ms L.’s belongings on the floor. She concluded that it was her scream that she had heard.
11. Having failed to obtain a confession from the applicant, T. and S. made her sit on a chair, put a plastic bag over her head and started to strangle her. At the same time they struck her head, face and mouth so that she could not bite through the bag. The applicant fainted several times. When she told the officers she needed to use the toilet, S. hit her in the stomach and the head. She fainted once again and urinated involuntarily. Sometime later the applicant noticed the presence of another officer, P., in the office.
12. After several hours of ill-treatment, the applicant was taken to another office where she stayed for about twenty minutes. Thereafter she was brought before a female officer, who conducted her formal questioning.
13. At about 6 p.m. the applicant signed the official report of the questioning. She was then taken to the office of the head of the search unit, who stated that she was the main suspect in the theft case and that all her colleagues had indicated her as the likely thief. The applicant complained about her ill-treatment. Her complaint was ignored.
14. She was taken again to office no. 56, where the officers threatened her and tried to pressure her into confessing. She repeatedly refused to do so and professed her innocence. The applicant was forced to write a statement that she had no complaints about the way the police had treated her.
....
47. ...[T]he Court notes that on the day following the alleged ill-treatment the applicant was diagnosed with numerous injuries, for which she underwent in-patient hospital treatment for eighteen days; she then remained on sick leave for another three weeks. Doctors at the hospital in which she was treated found it necessary to immediately inform the police of her injuries ....
50. The Court has consistently pointed out in its case-law that, in respect of a person who is deprived of his liberty, or, more generally, is confronted with law-enforcement officers, any recourse to physical force which has not been made strictly necessary by his or her own conduct diminishes human dignity and is an infringement of the right set forth in Article 3....
51. The Court considers in the present case that the applicant suffered a serious violation of her physical integrity and dignity. In assessing the gravity of the ill-treatment in question, the Court attaches weight to: the applicant’s gender and the overwhelming power of the three trained male police officers who subjected her to violence; the aim of the ill-treatment, which was to extract a confession to a criminal offence; the nature of the ill‑treatment, involving a plastic bag placed over the applicant’s head and attempted or simulated strangulation; the extent of the applicant’s injuries, as documented by the hospital following her release; the psychological pressure on the applicant arising from the simultaneous questioning (and, possibly, ill-treatment) of her colleague, and, lastly, the applicant’s humiliation in respect of her involuntary urination while being in a state of complete helplessness. The Court considers these considerations sufficient to conclude that the applicant suffered ill-treatment serious enough to constitute torture (see Article 1 § 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, cited by the Court in [other cases] ...)."
52. Accordingly, there has been a violation of Article 3 of the Convention under its substantive limb.
____
Looking at Paragraph 51 and the weighting factors, it is clear that some of these apply directly to the Knox v. Italy case, but certainly Knox did not suffer any reported visible injuries. However, the pressures on Knox resulted in her false statements, which unfairly affected the legal proceedings against her. The factors applying to Knox v. Italy would be:
1. Gender; 2. Power of the authorities, including the arbitrary exercise of that power to threaten and slap her without legal justification; 3. The aim of the mistreatment, which was to extract a confession or statement implicating another about a murder case; 4. The nature of the ill-treatment, which included but was not limited to threats, slaps, misrepresentations, repetition, sleep-deprivation, and suggestions designed to overcome her will and corrupt her memory; 5. The psychological pressure of the approximately simultaneous questioning of her boyfriend, Sollecito, and apparently the police telling her that he had stated she had left his apartment at the relevant time or otherwise did not support her alibi; and 6. Humiliating her by preventing her from using bathroom facilities.
Having failed to obtain a confession from the applicant, T. and S. made her sit on a chair, put a plastic bag over her head and started to strangle her. At the same time they struck her head, face and mouth so that she could not bite through the bag. The applicant fainted several times. When she told the officers she needed to use the toilet, S. hit her in the stomach and the head. She fainted once again and urinated involuntarily. Sometime later the applicant noticed the presence of another officer, P., in the office.
There's certainly proof she was not provided a lawyer and that the translator provided was not independent nor did she limit her actions strictly to translation. As to whether she was given food and drink, allowed to go to the bathroom and whether she was slapped and threatened, I suppose we could turn to the recording of the interrogation....
Vixen, I wonder; if you were detained by the police in a foreign country, threatened, slapped around, not given anything to eat or drink, not allowed to sleep or use the bathroom, not given a lawyer, provided an interpreter who works for and acted on behalf of the police.... if they didn't record the interrogation and the police coerce a false statement out of you... what would be your plan for proving the police did this to you?
And btw, the case before the ECHR is an appeal of Amanda's calunnia conviction, and is based in part on the fact that she was treated in an inhuman and degrading manner. She did not file criminal charges against the police so I have no idea why you think some kind of formal complaint would be required. It's clear she documented her treatment within 24 hours of the interrogation and the courts were very well aware of it. All the ECHR needs to do is determine if there is sufficient grounds to consider her accusations reasonable. I'm thinking her acquittal of calunnia against the police will go a long way in that decision.
Mignini is nothing to the ECHR. The case is only about human rights - as guaranteed in the Convention and ECHR case-law, Knox, and Italy.
I am very confident that the ECHR will rule against Italy, and for Knox, and that provisions of the judgment will include that the trial convicting her of calunnia against Lumumba was unfair and, therefore, that Knox is entitled to request a new trial in which all her Convention rights are respected.
I cannot predict whether or not Italy would fulfill Knox's request for a revision trial, because the Italian courts have a group of judges who do not follow the Italian Constitution or Italian laws, and certainly not the European Convention on Human Rights.
I don't seem to have made it clear enough as you are still in the dark and know not why you stumble.
It means nothing to 'mention it in the witness statement/the memoriale to the police'. You have to follow the correct complaints procedure. The court can do exactly ZIPPO, NADA, ZILCH.
The court cannot campaign on behalf of anyone who appears in front of it. That is the barristers' job. Dalla Vedova did not make a complaint about police torture and human rights abuses at any time, much less file a report via the right channels.
Imagine you are a shop selling white goods and I buy a washing machine from you.
I get it home. The blessed thing doesn't work. Kaput. What should I do? Should I:
1. Issue a press release calling you a crook and a conmerchant warning people not to go near your shop; go on tv interviews moaning about your shop and its shoddy products; file a complaint with the Courts suing you for damages for distress caused and when that fails, lodge a claim with the ECHR citing Article 6 and Article 3.
2. Be reasonable and notify you of my dissatisfaction, requesting you replace the faulty product or refund my money.
No doubt you will go for (1) because you have a belief simply whinging is enough and who cares if it's libel and could cause you serious and reckless reputation damage?
Grinenko v Ukraine 33627/06 15-11-2012
Grinenko maintained that Ukraine had violated his rights under Convention Articles 3 (prohibition of torture or inhuman or degrading treatment), 5 (right to liberty, prohibition against arbitrary detention), and 6 (right to a fair trial) in the course of a criminal case: an allegation that he had ordered a murder for hire.
Before the ECHR, Ukraine's defense was that Grinenko's application for violation of Article 3 was inadmissible because he had not followed proper procedures for a complaint in the Ukrainian justice system. He had repeatedly mentioned his complaint in court proceedings, but had not filed the appropriate formal complaint with the authorities.
Apparently you either really don't know when you've lost an argument or you are just incapable of acknowledging it. Try reading this again very, very slowly and perhaps it will sink in:
Your defense is that Knox did not follow proper procedure for a complaint in the Italian justice system. Knox, like Grinenko, had repeatedly mentioned her complaint in her memorial 1 (entered into court evidence) and in court proceedings. You claim that Knox, like Grinenko, did not file the appropriate formal complaint with the authorities. Following this so far?
ECHR judgment: State authorities must take action whenever there is any credible allegation of mistreatment by State agents, and statements by an alleged victim in court are adequate to bring such allegations to the level of requiring an effective investigation. Failure of Ukraine to conduct an effective investigation was thus a violation of Convention Article 3.
The Italian police did not take action to investigate Knox's statement of being smacked. Instead, they sued her for defamation which case they lost. This failure to investigate is a violation of Article 3.
Your inability, or unwillingness, to acknowledge this is like a 4 yr. old refusing to concede he ate the cookie when confronted with a picture of himself with cookie crumbles all around his mouth and a cookie in each hand.
Oh really? This is equivalent to a claim which no-one else witness in which Knox claims Ficarra slapped up her head- amazingly, having at the same time being caught out confessing to being at the murder scene and taking a strange man there to have sex with Mez, yet her lawyer thought it too immaterial and trivial to file a proper complaint.
So Knox was given camomile tea and a choice brioches and that counts as 'torture' and abuse of human rights, yet at no time did she get a medical report describing her terrible trauma, even though the American Embassy official visited her frequently. She could have told him.
I don't seem to have made it clear enough as you are still in the dark and know not why you stumble.
It means nothing to 'mention it in the witness statement/the memoriale to the police'. You have to follow the correct complaints procedure. The court can do exactly ZIPPO, NADA, ZILCH.
The court cannot campaign on behalf of anyone who appears in front of it. That is the barristers' job.
She was sued for defamation because she used her PR agent and book publishers to issue press releases saying she was beaten up by the police and interrogated for 53 hours by tag teams of twelve and not allowed food or drink or comfort breaks.
Yet her lawyer failed to file a complaint via the correct complaints procedures.
She was sued for defamation because she used her PR agent and book publishers to issue press releases saying she was beaten up by the police and interrogated for 53 hours by tag teams of twelve and not allowed food or drink or comfort breaks.
Yet her lawyer failed to file a complaint via the correct complaints procedures.
Why do you embellish? It does your argument no good.
Your canard about PR agents and book releases don't agree WITH THE WAY MANUELA COMODI HERSELF TOLD THE COURT as to why Knox was being charged with defamation - a charge she was eventually acquitted of!.
YOUR FACTOIDS DON'T SQUARE WITH THE WAY COMODI HERSELF SAYS the charges came about! Do some reading rather than inventing, using the first thing which pops into your head!
That's not the word I'd use. These are "embellishments" in the same way as "There were no contacts with the Russians" is an "embellishment".
I've decided to use "embellishments" rather than the more accurate "lies", since finding out Gogerty-Marriott paid everyone except me!
Now I've discovered what your favourite pastime is, I know what to get you for Christmas: a big pot of gold paint and a few lilies, so you can keep on gilding 'em.
Now I've discovered what your favourite pastime is, I know what to get you for Christmas: a big pot of gold paint and a few lilies, so you can keep on gilding 'em.
ECHR judgment: State authorities must take action whenever there is any credible allegation of mistreatment by State agents, and statements by an alleged victim in court are adequate to bring such allegations to the level of requiring an effective investigation. Failure of Ukraine to conduct an effective investigation was thus a violation of Convention Article 3. [/QUOTE]Apparently you either really don't know when you've lost an argument or you are just incapable of acknowledging it. Try reading this again very, very slowly and perhaps it will sink in:
Your defense is that Knox did not follow proper procedure for a complaint in the Italian justice system. Knox, like Grinenko, had repeatedly mentioned her complaint in her memorial 1 (entered into court evidence) and in court proceedings. You claim that Knox, like Grinenko, did not file the appropriate formal complaint with the authorities. Following this so far?
From Stacyhs's post:ECHR judgment: State authorities must take action whenever there is any credible allegation of mistreatment by State agents, and statements by an alleged victim in court are adequate to bring such allegations to the level of requiring an effective investigation. Failure of Ukraine to conduct an effective investigation was thus a violation of Convention Article 3.
The Italian police did not take action to investigate Knox's statement of being smacked. Instead, they sued her for defamation*which case they lost. This failure to investigate is a violation of Article 3.
Your inability, or unwillingness, to acknowledge this is like a 4 yr. old refusing to concede he ate the cookie when confronted with a picture of himself with cookie crumbles all around his mouth and a cookie in each hand.
Since the issue of filing a complaint has come up again, I will point out that Knox's Memoriale 1, according to Italian law (CPP Articles 337 and 333) did meet or approximate the formalities of a complaint of a crime.
In fact, according to these Italian laws (CPP Articles 337 and 333), a private person may provide a complaint and it may even be delivered orally; if delivered orally, the police or prosecutor is to write down (minute) the complaint, which the complainant or his/her lawyer will sign and date. There is no requirement in Italian law that a person's lawyer must deliver some kind of formal complaint; that is merely a guilter fantasy.
....
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* The legal case against Knox was primarily a criminal charge of calunnia, false accusation, against the police and Mignini. She was finally acquitted (the prosecution did not appeal) by the judgment of the Boninsegna court.