Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Vixen]

I'm not glad that a few die-hard PGP think it is OK to peddle crap and lies on TJMK proclaiming it's "all for Meredith".

I know this is an utter and complete waste of time, but where is the evidence that Amanda "smelled of cat pee"? Or that she was "unpopular in Perugia"? Or that Amanda's drug use was "over the top and extending back to Seattle"?

AIUI this is the observation* of early police officers at the scene.

Does this look like Knox just had a shower, shampoo and blow dry?

*Police are trained to be observant.

 

[Stacyhs]

This is another paragraph from the TJMK nonsense:

She ignores that two courts were provably corrupted. She ignores that Knox’s so-called “interrogation” was a hoax. She ignores over 30 other hoaxes. She ignores that the 30-plus judges who handled the case published extensive lists of evidence. She ignores that there were two unanimous pro-guilt juries (and one corrupted one). She ignores that Knox was NOT exonerated. She ignores Knox’s promotion of the stalking of the victim’s family (a felony). She ignores that Italy’s murder and incarceration rates are 1/6 those of the US.

TJMK ignores the fact that there is no evidence that any of these courts were "corrupt" nor does it provide any. It ignores that the court acquitted Knox of defamation against the police for her claims of an abusive interrogation. TJMK ignores the fact that despite the "30 judges" and their "list of evidence", Knox was definitively acquitted because that "evidence" did not stand up to scrutiny by experts. TJMK claims that Duncan ignored "two unanimous pro-guilt juries" yet Duncan does state that Knox was convicted twice. TJMK ignores the fact that a law professor at Harvard Law School knows what an exoneration is and when to use the term far better than they do. They also ignore the fact that an Italian judge said Knox was "exonerated". TJMK just plain lies when they claim that Knox promoted the "stalking of the victim's family". They ignore that fact that Italy's population is 60 million vs the US's 323 million when they claim Italy's incarceration rate is 1/6 of the US.

 

[Stacyhs]

Once again you have changed the context (and the subject), which is a favourite ploy of yours. We were talking about presenting evidence in court which includes description of body language.

You are off with the pixies chuntering about the reasons for arrest.

Please point out exactly how I changed the context or subject. I addressed directly your little scenario.

You really have no idea just how ironic your accusation of changing the context and subject is, do you?

As I pointed out, your story wasn't about body language. It was about how the accused was dressed. And in that little story, the policeman was testifying to what he saw. No interpretation of why the man had sweat on his brow was given.

 

[Methos]

I'm not glad that a few die-hard PGP think it is OK to peddle crap and lies on TJMK proclaiming it's "all for Meredith".

I know this is an utter and complete waste of time, but where is the evidence that Amanda "smelled of cat pee"? Or that she was "unpopular in Perugia"? Or that Amanda's drug use was "over the top and extending back to Seattle"?

OK, I'm going to waste another five minutes of my life.
Honest answers to your question about "the evidence that" would be:
- that the first "quote" is basically based on the following excerpt from Barbie Nadeau's "Angel Face":

Carmignani, who knew all the cops by name, broke away from the gaggle on the roof and sauntered down to the crime scene. The police confided to him some observations that never got to court. For example, police said Amanda’s body odor contradicted her claim that she’d just showered; she smelled like sex.
Nadeau, Barbie Latza. Angel Face: Sex, Murder and the Inside Story of Amanda Knox (S.55-56). Perseus Books Group. Kindle-Version.

This one evolved from proof that "Amanda hadn't showered" to "proof that she had taken stronger drugs than just weed" because some clever person over there came up with a link between the use of "skunk weed" and "smelling like cat's urine". So that smell it must have been (they have linked that smell to the use of cocaine and crystal meth over the time as well...)
But I guess you won't find anything hard and reliable on that point because of the bolded part of the excerpt.

- that the second "quote" of course is based on the fact that Amanda didn't spend the night of Halloween with "very popular Meredith" and her "very popular friends" and this little piece from the Daily Fail: I fired Foxy Knoxy for hitting on customers: Patrick Lumumba reveals why he was framed over Meredith's murder...

- and lastly that the third one is of course solely based on this one, also from the ever reliable Daily Fail: The wild, raunchy past of Foxy Knoxy...

 

[Stacyhs]

AIUI this is the observation* of early police officers at the scene.

Does this look like Knox just had a shower, shampoo and blow dry?

*Police are trained to be observant.

LOL! As a matter of fact, her hair looks perfectly clean as does she. As for a blow dry, this picture was taken hours later outside. Or do you think hair stays perfectly coiffed outside in the wind?

Not a single policeman...or anyone else...reported that Amanda's hair look unwashed or that she appeared not to have showered. And according to you, they are trained to be observant. How on earth did they miss her dirty hair?

 

[Stacyhs]

OK, I'm going to waste another five minutes of my life.
Honest answers to your question about "the evidence that" would be:
- that the first "quote" is basically based on the following excerpt from Barbie Nadeau's "Angel Face":


This one evolved from proof that "Amanda hadn't showered" to "proof that she had taken stronger drugs than just weed" because some clever person over there came up with a link between the use of "skunk weed" and "smelling like cat's urine". So that smell it must have been (they have linked that smell to the use of cocaine and crystal meth over the time as well...)
But I guess you won't find anything hard and reliable on that point because of the bolded part of the excerpt.

- that the second "quote" of course is based on the fact that Amanda didn't spend the night of Halloween with "very popular Meredith" and her "very popular friends" and this little piece from the Daily Fail: I fired Foxy Knoxy for hitting on customers: Patrick Lumumba reveals why he was framed over Meredith's murder...

- and lastly that the third one is of course solely based on this one, also from the ever reliable Daily Fail: The wild, raunchy past of Foxy Knoxy...

"The police confided to him some observations that never got to court. For example, police said Amanda’s body odor contradicted her claim that she’d just showered; she smelled like sex."

And yet, this was ever introduced in court. Just like the "running washing machine" story that never made it into court.

Edited: Funny how not a single policeman reported the body odor/unwashed hair, nor did any of Meredith's friends, nor did Filomena, nor did her friend Paola, nor did Luca Altieri, nor did Marco Marzan. But whom do Vixen and the nutters over on TJMK believe? An unconfirmed second hand report that an unnamed police officer allegedly said Amanda smelled of sex. Gotta love it.

 

[Methos]

"The police confided to him some observations that never got to court. For example, police said Amanda’s body odor contradicted her claim that she’d just showered; she smelled like sex."

And yet, this was ever introduced in court. Just like the "running washing machine" story that never made it into court.

Like the "bleach receipts"? ,or "the countless experts"?

 

[Stacyhs]

Like the "bleach receipts"? ,or "the countless experts"?

Yes...exactly like those.

I think what is so ludicrous is that, if the pair were guilty, there would have been no need whatsoever for them to make up the story of the shower or the locked bedroom door, etc. at all. All they had to do was say Amanda (or both of them) went home to change her clothes before going to Gubbio and, as she walked past Meredith's open door, saw the her lying on the bloody floor. Then call the police and report the murder. Let the police discover the poop in the toilet, the blood in the bathroom, the faked break-in (which was also not required) etc. THAT is far easier and far more simple to remember than to go through all the other story about taking a shower, seeing the blood in the bathroom, going back to Raff's, returning to the cottage, trying to break down the door, calling Filomena, blah blah blah.

 

[Methos]

Yes...exactly like those.

I think what is so ludicrous is that, if the pair were guilty, there would have been no need whatsoever for them to make up the story of the shower or the locked bedroom door, etc. at all. All they had to do was say Amanda (or both of them) went home to change her clothes before going to Gubbio and, as she walked past Meredith's open door, saw the her lying on the bloody floor. Then call the police and report the murder. Let the police discover the poop in the toilet, the blood in the bathroom, the faked break-in (which was also not required) etc. THAT is far easier and far more simple to remember than to go through all the other story about taking a shower, seeing the blood in the bathroom, going back to Raff's, returning to the cottage, trying to break down the door, calling Filomena, blah blah blah.

Exactly...!

 

[TruthCalls]

Article 26.3 Source: NATIONAL BAR COUNCIL
MINISTRY OF JUSTICE
Code of Conduct for Italian Lawyers
(Approved by the National Bar Council
during the session of January 31st 2014)

You were asked to provide a citation that would prove that "Under Italian law Dalla Vedova had a duty and obligation to report the police abuse" and this is what you provided. However, when I checked Art 26.3 I found the following;

Article 26
Carrying out the representation

1. The acceptance of representation requires the competence to carry it out.

2. A lawyer, in case of representations requiring competences different from his, shall advice the client and the assisted party on the need for another colleague with such competences in order to integrate his representation.

3. Failure to perform actions related to representation of the assisted party, or the late or negligent performance of such actions, constitutes a violation of professional duty if such behavior results from inexcusable and careless disregard of the assisted party’s interests.

How does this equate to being required to report police abuse?

 

[TruthCalls]

Yes...exactly like those.

I think what is so ludicrous is that, if the pair were guilty, there would have been no need whatsoever for them to make up the story of the shower or the locked bedroom door, etc. at all. All they had to do was say Amanda (or both of them) went home to change her clothes before going to Gubbio and, as she walked past Meredith's open door, saw the her lying on the bloody floor. Then call the police and report the murder. Let the police discover the poop in the toilet, the blood in the bathroom, the faked break-in (which was also not required) etc. THAT is far easier and far more simple to remember than to go through all the other story about taking a shower, seeing the blood in the bathroom, going back to Raff's, returning to the cottage, trying to break down the door, calling Filomena, blah blah blah.

Or leave for Gubbio directly from Raffaele's and let someone else discover Meredith.

 

[Vixen]

Please point out exactly how I changed the context or subject. I addressed directly your little scenario.

You really have no idea just how ironic your accusation of changing the context and subject is, do you?

As I pointed out, your story wasn't about body language. It was about how the accused was dressed. And in that little story, the policeman was testifying to what he saw. No interpretation of why the man had sweat on his brow was given.

That is because once again you have failed to understand that it is for the court to decide what to make of the evidence.

All your role as a witness is to describe what you saw.

 

[Vixen]

LOL! As a matter of fact, her hair looks perfectly clean as does she. As for a blow dry, this picture was taken hours later outside. Or do you think hair stays perfectly coiffed outside in the wind?

Not a single policeman...or anyone else...reported that Amanda's hair look unwashed or that she appeared not to have showered. And according to you, they are trained to be observant. How on earth did they miss her dirty hair?

It is so greasy, you could fry chips in it.

 

[Vixen]

Yes...exactly like those.

I think what is so ludicrous is that, if the pair were guilty, there would have been no need whatsoever for them to make up the story of the shower or the locked bedroom door, etc. at all. All they had to do was say Amanda (or both of them) went home to change her clothes before going to Gubbio and, as she walked past Meredith's open door, saw the her lying on the bloody floor. Then call the police and report the murder. Let the police discover the poop in the toilet, the blood in the bathroom, the faked break-in (which was also not required) etc. THAT is far easier and far more simple to remember than to go through all the other story about taking a shower, seeing the blood in the bathroom, going back to Raff's, returning to the cottage, trying to break down the door, calling Filomena, blah blah blah.

No, a murderer is no way going to alert the police to a murder they committed.

 

[bagels]

That is because once again you have failed to understand that it is for the court to decide what to make of the evidence.

All your role as a witness is to describe what you saw.

I doubt there are any detective notes from the first day about what they observed from Amanda nor would I trust their memory after she became a suspect. In the initial statements they took from Amanda and Raffaele they didn't even ask them where they were at the time of the murder, that's how uninterested in the two they were and unsuspicious they appeared to be. Knox became a suspect when the mobile phone records were connected with the conclusion the break-in was staged and the boys downstairs were cleared.

 

[Vixen]

You were asked to provide a citation that would prove that "Under Italian law Dalla Vedova had a duty and obligation to report the police abuse" and this is what you provided. However, when I checked Art 26.3 I found the following;

Article 26
Carrying out the representation

1. The acceptance of representation requires the competence to carry it out.

2. A lawyer, in case of representations requiring competences different from his, shall advice the client and the assisted party on the need for another colleague with such competences in order to integrate his representation.

3. Failure to perform actions related to representation of the assisted party, or the late or negligent performance of such actions, constitutes a violation of professional duty if such behavior results from inexcusable and careless disregard of the assisted party’s interests.

How does this equate to being required to report police abuse?

Under England & Wales Bar Standards a lawyer must advice his/her client of a detailed complaints procedure.

Carlo Dalla Vedova failed to lodge a complaint on behalf of his client of the police brutality and torture Knos is now claiming at the ECHR.

That is gross negligence, as it means Knox' claim fails at the first hurdle, as ECHR directions state that all internal complaints procedures must be followed first.

Dalla Vedova by his submitting the ECHR claim making serious allegations against the police and prosecutors gives rise to the suspicion of a fraudulent application, as there is no record of any complaint to the police as of the time the brutality Knox claims happened.

 

[Vixen]

Or leave for Gubbio directly from Raffaele's and let someone else discover Meredith.

Do you have any evidence they had plans to go to Gubbio, before the murder?

 

[Bill Williams]

Dalla Vedova by his submitting the ECHR claim making serious allegations against the police and prosecutors gives rise to the suspicion of a fraudulent application, as there is no record of any complaint to the police as of the time the brutality Knox claims happened.

People who brought complaints against the police or criticized them in the press found themselves charged with defamation. Now they're being accused of not bringing complaints.

That how this double bind rolls.

 

[bagels]

Do you have any evidence they had plans to go to Gubbio, before the murder?

The point is they could have gone anywhere, they could have driven to France if they really wanted. Hanging around the crime scene and pointing out to the police that nothing was stolen (from the scene I spent hours staging to look like a break-in) and oh yeah btw I somehow took a shower next to a room full of blood and another room full of broken glass without noticing seems unexpected when you come up with the list of ways to cover up your murder with a > 12 hour window.

The PGP's explanation for this incoherent staged discovery is it was quickly improvised by the arrival of the postal police, which relies on two transparently false data points, the first being ignoring that Amanda already explained herself to Filomena 30 minutes earlier, and the second being the postal police can be seen arriving on the CCTV video long after their claim.

So by my count, on the discovery, you're wrong from at least three different directions (coherency, timeline, sightings), which isn't surprising as that's what tends to happen when you make up a belief out of thin air that didn't actually happen in reality. Don't worry though reality is safely restrained from penetrating your brain.

 

[Vixen]

People who brought complaints against the police or criticized them in the press found themselves charged with defamation. Now they're being accused of not bringing complaints.

That how this double bind rolls.

Any fule kno' you have to go through the correct channels.

Contacting Friends of Amanda Knox or Gogerty-Marriott to send out a press release is dishonest. Yes, you will be charged with defamation if you make claims of criminal torture out of sheer malice to evade a murder rap.