Merged Woman Killed by Illegal Immigrant in San Francisco

[The Nimble Pianist]

So he admitted to intentionally firing the weapon in a crowded urban area? And then someone died as a result? Not really sure what more the jury needed for involuntary manslaughter, but apparently it wasn't enough.

He's brown, y habla español. Es lo suficiente quitar la justicia.

 

[Parsman]

Like the hunter who shot and killed the woman out for a walk with her dog? Should he be arrested and charged with murder? You may have a point, much as I hate to give you any credit, that this person shouldn't have been in the USA. However from what I have seen the shooting itself may have been as much of an accident as the hunter in question. There is little evidence that suggests this was a premeditated murder. And while zero immigration, legal or illegal, from people like this may be desirable I doubt if it is achievable. No system is 100% effective, all you can do is risk manage to reduce the risk as much as possible. Trump's wall and travel bans would be no more effective in achieving this risk reduction than the Great Wall of China was at keeping the nomads out.

 

[The Nimble Pianist]

My grandmother and four Mission High students just told me they're all scared for different reasons. My grandmother because this might be a pretext to clamp down on illegal immigration (my grandmother is an "illegal"), the kids because the cops are going to harass them more than normal. We all agree as a community that this is a huge miscarriage of justice.

Way to go SF!

 

[applecorped]

California Uber Alles

 

[applecorped]

No, not like at all

 

[LTC8K6]

Did you watch the trial?

Sadly Steinle was killed by a ricochet. Sure the guy was a jerk, and a creep and a beautiful woman was killed. But he didn't shoot her.

Whatever happened, negligent homicide or accidental, he did not aim and shoot her or at her.

Trumpers will not simply not be able to hear that.

He didn't shoot her?

Who did?

Is it now legal to fire a (stolen) gun a few times and kill people if you didn't aim at them?

He is guilty of involuntary manslaughter, imo.

Just like the hunter.

Just like a drunk driver.

As someone else posted:

1) Enter the country illegally (several times)
2) Fire a stolen Sig Sauer handgun into a group of people
3) Sever the aorta of a young woman & kill her
4) Throw gun in SF Bay
5) Get caught on video fleeing scene
6) Watch a SF jury acquit you of the serious charges in a mockery of justice

 

[LTC8K6]

Like the hunter who shot and killed the woman out for a walk with her dog? Should he be arrested and charged with murder? You may have a point, much as I hate to give you any credit, that this person shouldn't have been in the USA. However from what I have seen the shooting itself may have been as much of an accident as the hunter in question. There is little evidence that suggests this was a premeditated murder. And while zero immigration, legal or illegal, from people like this may be desirable I doubt if it is achievable. No system is 100% effective, all you can do is risk manage to reduce the risk as much as possible. Trump's wall and travel bans would be no more effective in achieving this risk reduction than the Great Wall of China was at keeping the nomads out.

The hunter is appropriately charged with manslaughter.

 

[BobTheCoward]

He didn't shoot her?

Who did?

Is it now legal to fire a (stolen) gun a few times and kill people if you didn't aim at them?

He is guilty of involuntary manslaughter, imo.

Just like the hunter.

Just like a drunk driver.

As someone else posted:

A very convenient method to arrive at your verdict is to omit many of the facts of the case. While effectively, it is not an option in the US justice system.

 

[BobTheCoward]

And the Trump Haters and the We Need Infinity Refugees on Welfare liberals will ignore the fact that this guy had no right to be in the United States in the first place. We need to immediately adopt Israel style immigration policies that will keep unskilled uneducated low IQ useless eaters like this loser out of our country.

PS: He shot her. It was no accident.

And if there are no illegal immigrants then there are people who will die under other sets of bizarre circumstances. If immigration does not raise per capita crime rates, anecdote is poor argument.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Here is an explanation of why he wasn't

In California, when you talk about “criminally negligent homicide” you’re talking about a crime called “involuntary manslaughter.” It’s the crime that Michael Jackson’s doctor was charged with, for administering a fatal dose of propofol. The crime requires that the defendant do a crime, or a lawful act in an unlawful manner, that caused someone’s death, with criminal negligence.

So what is criminal negligence in California? The instructions that a judge reads to jurors say, in part:

Criminal negligence involves more than ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistake in judgment. A person acts with criminal negligence when:

1. He or she acts in a reckless way that creates a high risk of death or great bodily injury;

AND

2. A reasonable person would have known that acting in that way would create such a risk.

In other words, a person acts with criminal negligence when the way he or she acts is so different from the way an ordinarily careful person would act in the same situation that his or her act amounts to disregard for human life or indifference to the consequences of that act.

I have added some hopefully helpful bold type here. But hopefully the distinction is clear. On one hand, you have ordinary carelessness or an accident. This is not criminal. On the other hand, you have recklessness that is so different from usual care that the person is essentially indifferent to human life. That’s what rises to the level of criminal negligence. Put another way: criminal negligence is not just any negligence that results in death. It’s a reasonably high standard, as befits a criminal statute that carries prison time as a consequence for its violation.



Merely picking up a gun and having it accidentally go off is unlikely to be found to be criminally negligent. Waving it around or brandishing it is closer to the type of behavior that this crime targets.

 

[Stacko]

Sarah Rumpf has a good analysis of how the defense was able to successfully present their case.

https://www.redstate.com/sarah-rumpf/2017/11/30/lied-kate-steinle-case/amp/

 

[The Nimble Pianist]

Sarah Rumpf has a good analysis of how the defense was able to successfully present their case.

https://www.redstate.com/sarah-rumpf/2017/11/30/lied-kate-steinle-case/amp/

Sounds like a lot of nonsense. This guy picked up a gun then spent 20 min. twirling around on a chair before "accidentally" discharging the weapon.

I'm more ashamed of the prosecutor for not charging him with negligent homicide.

I'm as liberal as they come, but really, this guy should've been given a couple decades.

Have fun explaining to Trumptards why this "doesn't matter".

 

[LTC8K6]

A very convenient method to arrive at your verdict is to omit many of the facts of the case. While effectively, it is not an option in the US justice system.

I'm furious, and I followed the case closely.

Hopefully the feds can lock him up for a long time.

 

[LTC8K6]

Here is an explanation of why he wasn't

He didn't merely pick up a gun and have it go off...

Also, if I pick up a gun and fail to check to see if it is loaded, and it merely goes off and kills someone while I am playing with it, I will be put in jail for that.

For me, an adult male, it would clearly be negligence to play with a loaded firearm and kill someone.

 

[BobTheCoward]

He didn't merely pick up a gun and have it go off...

Also, if I pick up a gun and fail to check to see if it is loaded, and it merely goes off and kills someone while I am playing with it, I will be put in jail for that.

For me, an adult male, it would clearly be negligence to play with a loaded firearm and kill someone.

I don't accept your claim that a person would be put in jail for that. I'm assuming you meant convicted, and not merely detained during trial.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I'm furious, and I followed the case closely.

Hopefully the feds can lock him up for a long time.

You following the case closely does not mean you did not omit facts in your quoted piece.

Hopefully no government agency abuses power to indirectly punish someone for a crime they were found not guilty of.

 

[acbytesla]

Sounds like a lot of nonsense. This guy picked up a gun then spent 20 min. twirling around on a chair before "accidentally" discharging the weapon.

I'm more ashamed of the prosecutor for not charging him with negligent homicide.

I'm as liberal as they come, but really, this guy should've been given a couple decades.

Have fun explaining to Trumptards why this "doesn't matter".

No he shouldn't have been given a couple of decades. I do agree he should have been charged with Negligent Homicide. That was the real problem. The murder charges were overreach.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't accept your claim that a person would be put in jail for that. I'm assuming you meant convicted, and not merely detained during trial.

It's too late anyway.
I'm sorry Kate lived in a place that just didn't care.

Maybe the feds will take action on sanctuary cities now?

Who am I kidding...

 

[pgwenthold]

Sounds like a lot of nonsense. This guy picked up a gun then spent 20 min. twirling around on a chair before "accidentally" discharging the weapon.

I'm more ashamed of the prosecutor for not charging him with negligent homicide.
.

Yes.

Don't blame the California. Don't blame "sanctuary cities." Don't blame the jury.

Blame the stupid prosecutors.

Negligent homocide should have been easy. But they didn't want that. They wanted murder. And in wanting murder, they made claims that were easily doubted.

They were so determined to get murder charge that they didn't sufficiently allow the jury to come back with negligent homicide.

Did you see their claim? That he went to the pier with the gun specifically to shoot someone? That completely falls apart. They were stupid to even try it.

Blame the prosecutors for *********** it up.

 

[LTC8K6]

No he shouldn't have been given a couple of decades. I do agree he should have been charged with Negligent Homicide. That was the real problem. The murder charges were overreach.

The jury was instructed on the lesser charges, so they were in play.